Advice on one of these PCs?

I have been searching for a FS2004 compatible computer and came across this web site: http://www.ecollegepc.com/
When you click on "Gaming Systems" they all seem to be pretty good, but I'd like a little help.

I am a total "Mac" gal and this whole ordeal began when I thought I could buy my husband a flight sim for a Playstation, Xbox, whatever (we don't own any game stations). After my research, I know FS2004 is the game for him - we just need a PC (wish they would make it for mac...boo hoo )

I had sticker shock initially b/c I always see PCs advertised for so cheap. I see the Intel P4s are roughly $20 more than the AMD Athlons, and I don't care which one I get, just so long as it runs FS2004 smoothly... but do the motherboards make a difference? Would the Athlon 64 3000+ be sufficient and comparable to an Intel P4 3.0GHz for $20 less? What is Corsair Select memory and would it make a noticable difference?

Research tells me I should upgrade the video card. If I select the 256MB ATI Radeon 9800XT will that suffice or would I need to upgrade the cpu speed? Am I missing anything besides having to add on a monitor and WXP Pro? Would the GeForce FX5700 256MB card it comes with be okay? Or do I have to shell out for GeForce 6800GT or ATI X800 Pro?

Any help is appreciated. I'm fairly competent w/macs but know very little about PCs and my husband is very non-technical and uninterested in becoming so. I want to surprise him w/this for Christmas and don't want to be running to the rescue everytime something doesn't work.

Obviously I know by going with the best of everything is ideal but I started out planning on spending $250 and I am trying to keep my costs down as much as I can, but at the same time I want a system that will run FS2004 effortlessly.

For a close to ultimate machine you need at least a P-4 3.0 or it's opposite AMD. The best video card that you can buy (I prefer ATI but that's all choice) and a minimum of 1 gig ram.
You are buying a machine to run this sim but also you want a machine that will run the next sim also, so you have to spend the $ now or upgrade later which will cost you more.

Go to either one of these sites and be prepared to spend some serious money, not the kind you looked at in that link.
Dell will give you a very fair machine, for a reasonable price. Alien will give you the ultimate gamers machine at twice the price.
Whatever you buy get the longest "on site repair" and 24/7 tech support that you can since he isn't interested in the "workings" of a computer.

Feel free to come back and ask as many questions as you like.

The sim with a rebate. http://www.freeafterrebate.info/index.php?topic=software

http://www.dell.com/

http://www.alienware.com/main.aspx

Why not give your hubby the ultamate crimbo present...........A big box of bits and a screwdriver
You could save $100s

Do you want/need a DVDRW and Firewire?
A lot of good motherboards come with built in modem/ethernet

If he can wire a plug,then he could build a PC,and you may start a new hobby for him

This site has some great prices, you design the computer.
It's not that much more than building one, something that I plan on doing with TTT's screwdriver if he ever sends it to me.

http://www.cyberpowersystem.com/

Sending another driver soon
Thats more like it.Don't go buying a PC because it says its the best game PC about becaue you will pay just for the title.Find sites that let you pick the items you want

All these fancy looking case's look great,( cost extra $$$$$)but what happens?it gets stuck under a desk and never sees the light of day,so just a plain case

If you still fancy the screwdriver way,but perhaps a bit easier then search for "barebone" systems (normally just a case,m/board and CPU,Then you add all the other bits you want)
Thats how I started,and now with two wire coat hangers and an empty washing up liquid bottle,I can make a full size Ford Mustang

Dear Guest
First I would like to well come U as a possible future member of our site.
Your question is one of the favorite subject of us and on that matter if U ask 2 members U may have 3 opinions. My attitude on the subject is a little closer to TomTheThank and my suggestion is purchase your computer in a local PC shop and if it is possible let him construct the computer by himself on your demand . What are the advantage for that approach: First U do not have to pay for items U do not need. Second if U not happy what U get U always can go back to him and request changes.
Third if U will need some upgrade later on U have your address.
So far it sounds very nice but maybe U have the common problem to face up the guy and let him know what U want.
So here are some points for U:
I would prefer Intell Pentium 3Gb for those $20.
Try not to have any onboard video card but u have to remember
to have something called AGP slot with connection x8 at least
Try to have memory slots x3 and not x2 for future upgrade possibilities. Good to have 5 PCI slots and not 4
You will need a hard drive with 80 Gb 7200 RPM . The mother board must support this drive at that speed.
1 GB memory is recommended . U can have less (512Mb) but ask at that case to have it as 1 strip. U will be able to expend it later.
The video card is the hart of the matter. Your suggestion for ATI 9600xt 256 Mb is a good one for the present. I have the “poor” version of that card (128mb) and I am happy with it for now. But U have to remember that in the near future a new version of flight sim on his way with new demands and than u may be requested to invest again. So on that item don’t spare money.
Other items: U need a reasonable CD drive, Power supply of at least 400w better 500 for the future, onboard voice card is OK ,1.6 Mb floppy drive and every thing for Internet connections (usualy onboard). The case and the motherboard with 6 USB connection. U have to tell to the sales guy what is the purpose of the computer and ask him for a offer some thing U can compare .
Believe me to have somebody near by in case of trouble is worth some thing
There is a link in the Internet called How To.. and there is some explanations HOW TO buy a computer
http://www.pcworld.com/howto.html
U will need agood joystick with as many buttons as posible and better to have a CH Yoke. It is not "must" but nice to have. (insted joystick)
Good Luck

Okay - still working on this Checked out the Cyberpower site but seemed way more expensive than the pccollege one. I have to be sneaky when researching so I don't have as much time to devote as I'd like. ha to having my husband build. He's a produer, dirctor, cameraman, editor, but NO builder. When something goes wrong, he'd rather pay to have it fixed vs. trying to figure it out. However, creatively he's awesome. Thus, I want a machine that will play FS2004 smoothly for his sake. I am planning on doing an apples to apples comparison. Will post when I do. We work together so it makes it all that much harder to research and keep things hidden. But, I bet I could put together a computer. I think it would be fun, just don't know where I could hide it and if I could finish before Christmas. I certainly wouldn't want to give it to him half put together as that is not his style. Thanks for the info. 10 p.m. EST and just getting home from work and haven't even eaten a cracker yet today

Hi again guest.
If you think that you can build one yourself, it really isn't that difficult with the directions that the major companies are willing to give.
Take a look at these two sites, they are the best for price and quality of parts, everything that you need to build a computer from the ground up.
Check them out, read them over while he's eating that cracker.

http://www.newegg.com

http://www.tigerdirect.com

go get a cracker, when you come back, this post will be waiting for you



My PC setup (Runs FS04 with 160+ frames in the air, drops to 17 on the ground with Ultimate Traffic 2004. (Frames=how smooth a game runs).

Without Ultimate Traffic = 52FPS at Chicago O'haire (one of the most detailed cities in the sim)


www.dell.com

Dimension 4600

2GB RAM

2.8Ghz Pentium 4 Processor

160GB Total Hard drive space (2 HD's)

I do not remember my Motherboard, it was what came with the PC when i got ot

SoundBlaster Audigy Audio 5.0 sound card (pretty much one step above the Piece o' schmit integrated)

ATI Radeon X800XT Platinum Edition (This is the single best video card available today, while Nvidia's new thing may edge it out by 2 frames in fS04, your hubby will be able to play ANY game he wants for the next long time, however, from www.compusa.com it was $530 total, the single most expensive part of my PC)


Total cost for this setup

approxx 2,000 dollars.

Hope it helps, you can mix and match between stuff, but don't ever buy from alienware, I could build you a better PC at half the cost, you're paying for the name, not the quality.

BTW, I do NOT build PC's for people, just using it as a example

Yum, leftover chili, a couple of aspirin for my hunger headache and ready for bed.

I've ordered mac stuff from newegg before.

Here's a comparison of almost apples to apples (copied from each site):

eCollegePC:
Intel Pentium 4 3.0Ghz  Prescott 800FSB CPU
Base Price $879 includes:
ASUS P4P800-E Deluxe 800FSB Motherboard
1GB Ultra Fast Dual Channel DDR400 Memory
160GB 7200RPM Serial ATA150 Hard Drive
12X Dual Layer DVD+/-RW Drive w/Software
1.44 Floppy Disk Drive
*256MB GeForce FX5700 Video Card DVI/TVout
56K V.92 Modem
1Gbit Marvell Ethernet Adapter
High quality 8-Channel AC97 Audio
420watt Black Raidmax Virgo Mid Tower Case
2 1394 Firewire Ports
6 USB 2.0 Ports (2 Front and 4 Rear Ports)
Keyboard, Mouse and Speakers
1 Year Parts and Labor Warranty
With upgrades:
*256MB ATI Radeon 9800XT DVI/TV AGP $229 or
*256MB ATI Radeon X800 Pro DDR DVI/TV AGP $309
Microsoft Windows XP Professional $155
17" .25DPI Flat CRT Monitor with 3 Year Warranty $159
Extended warranties include hassle free pickup & return
Total $1502 (free S&H)

CyperPower:
* 2ND_USB: STANDARD 2 USB PORT CONNECTORS
* CPU: (800FSB) Intel® Pentium® 4 CPU W/ HT Technology @ 3.0GHZ 800MHz FSB ~ C1223 [+739]
* CDRW: (Special Price) Samsung TS-H522B 16X DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW DRIVE DUAL LAYER [+37]
* CAS: TURBO X-INFINITY Case 420W W/ WINDOW & LCD Temperature Display (BLACK COLOR [+0])
* FLASHMEDIA: None
* FAN: INTEL CERTIFIED CPU FAN & HEATSINK
* FLOPPY: 1.44 MB FLOPPY DRIVE (BLACK COLOR [+0])
* HDD: 160GB 7200 RPM ATA 100 HARD DRIVE -- Recommended [+19]
* IEEE_CARD: NONE
* KEYBOARD: PS2 MULTIMEDIA INTERNET CONTROL KEYBOARD (BLACK COLOR)
* MOUSE: PS2 INTERNET MOUSE W/ WHEEL (BLACK COLOR)
* MOTHERBOARD: *(DDR400-800MHz FSB)ASUS P4P800-E DELUXE I865PE AGP8X DUAL DDR w/AUD,USB2,LAN [+54]
* MEMORY: 1024 MB (512MBx2) PC3200 400MHz Dual Channel DDR MEMORY [+91]
* MODEM: PCI 56K V.92 FAX MODEM W/ VOICE
* MONITOR: (SILVER/BLACK)NU 17 INCH LCD 2 TONE TFT LCD MONITOR [+275]
* NETWORK: ONBOARD 10/100 NETWORK CARD
* OS: Microsoft® Windows® XP Professional w/ Service Pack 2 [+46]
* POWERSUPPLY: STANDARD CASE POWER SUPPLY
* SERVICE: STANDARD WARRANTY PLUS ONE-YEAR ONSITE SERVICE
* SOUND: 3D WAVE ON-BOARD 5.1 SOUND CARD
* SPEAKERS: 120 WATT STEREO SPEAKERS [-2]
* VIDEO: NVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT 256MB AGP8X w/TVO&DVI [+364]
* _PRICE: (+1597) +$109 s&h therefore
Total $1706

The Bold option is giving me a hard time - I wanted to highlight the differences - the big one is the video card - but they are both near the top of their class. So I'm looking at a $200 difference by going with eCollegePC. I may pay a visit to MicroCenter and check out the costs of building it, as well as the time involved. I just wish they made the game for Playstation and I'd be all set. And I've tried in both instances to get a low key case - well at least black with 420W.

Goodnight. Need to be up early. Thanks again

I like eCollegePC better. The case ( I looked it up) has 2 intake fans, you can add one in the rear yourself, very easy ten bucks.
Get a bigger CRT monitor, he'll like a larger screen better for the sim and the cheap LCD will probably have "ghosting".
Have them put a copper heat sink fan in for you (Zalman) instead of the cheap aluminum standard one that comes with the CPU.
I would get the *256MB ATI Radeon X800 Pro DDR DVI/TV AGP $309 card.
You don't need XP-Pro, XP Home (OEM version) will be cheaper and it's a better gaming platform.
See if they can disable the on board High quality 8-Channel AC97 Audio and buy a Creative Labs card instead.


You have picked a very nice machine, lets see what changes TTT has to make. If you buy it stop back and we'll tell you the first things to do to set it up.
You NEED an anti virus, you can get one free or buy Norton, just buy their Anti Virus not the entire suite. The suite is junk.
Most of us use Norton.

Any of them would be superb

I would go with radar(even the ATI X800) (Nvidia man)
Onboard sound has come of age,but I would still go for a seperate audio card for better gameplay.FEM and are spot on with any SoundBlaster card

WinXP OEM will do just fine,as for the CRT mointor,bigger is better,just check the refresh rate,again higher is better(LCD do or did suffer from ghosting,but this has, I think been sorted out)

Some antivirus and firewall software,which you may get with the package as standard? ask (as radar said about Norton)

One lucky fellow

You will also need a joystick Somebody will come and recommend one(me I use an old MSsidewinder...discontinued)

Its good to see that you are picking a high power PCU(a lot of people forget about it and it matters)

again Yes to a better heat sink(the PC will thank you in the long run by running smoother and longer)

Hope its helped in some way

Thanks so so much! I'm so excited! I am going to call before ordering as I made notes of the questions to ask.

I tried to do most of my own homework before posting. Re: the barebones systems, they are not cheaper for my needs as I need everything and have nothing to keep from an old system.

I know CRT monitors are better than LCDs. We actually have a small portable one for video shoots but never use it - (total waste of money). Good point about the 19". I may look around for another monitor, keeping the refresh rate in mind. The 19" CRT from eCollegePC is $239, but I'd like one as slim as possible - for a good price of course.

I also started to price out individual components from newegg.com. Got as far as same motherboard, OS, CPU, 160GB hard drive, ATI Radeon X800 Pro and case and was already up to $983.50 - before adding in s&h, monitor, keyboard, everything else to make it run, learning how to build the thing, etc. So it's looking like I've stumbled upon something half way decent.

Interesting about the OS. I thought I read somewhere MS XP Professional was the way to go. Thanks for that tip.

He has a USB joystick from old flying games that never worked well on our mac at home. It's a big thing with two handles that says Thrustmaster on it (old Valentines Day gift) . I'll have to check the software and see if it's compatible with a pc.

I will post once I've ordered with final price tag and specs - need to do it soon as Christmas is just around the corner. I know I've only logged on as a guest, but hopefully someone else may be helped by this thread.

Oh, and for the final kicker... the actual FS2004 game is going to be a Christmas gift from my mother .
But that does lead me to another question - apologies first b/c I know this is a hardware forum - any highly recommended FS2004 add-ons or links to great ones. She spends about $100 and with the link to get FS2004 for only $10 she'll be bugging me to research and find more games, which I am totally willing and planning to do, just thought I'd ask first and understand it's not really the right thing to do. He's not a gamer perse but loves flight sims. No biggy if it's too inappropriate - can look on my own but you've all been so helpful.

Thanks again and to all a goodnight.

I'm glad to hear from you again.
Yes it is better in the long run if you can build it yourself, tigerdirect has easy assembly instructions, take a look and see what you think.
I have a 22 inch 20 inch viewable CRT, get one that had .25dpi (dots per inch) or less, anything over that is junk. They are large and heavy but a comparable gaming LCD is $1200 and up.
That joystick, if it works for the PC is a very good brand.
It's a great idea to do all of your home work before calling any of these companies and see what they suggest for substitutions.



I have the two add-on pieces of software for the sim, maybe she would like to get them for him.
Read about them and if you have any further questions please come-on-back and ask.
Good luck and he is very fortunate guy, if my ex was as caring as you she wouldn't be my ex.


http://www.flight1.com/products.asp?product=utraffic

Me too

Any traffic add on as it can be a bit lonely flying (I use Traffic2004) and a aircraft add on called PMDG 737NG for a very realistic aircraft(just added it to my set up and Im very pleased)

If there is still some $$$ left over then any scenery add on(the above site also do very detailed scenery,I have just ordered the Madeira scenery-fully animated airport......and Ive been there I want to see if I can land better than the captian of my flight did.....we bounced onto the runway


Good luck and good shopping

Still one Very Lucky Fellow

I just thought I'd add 2c or so. If you do the searching I did before I bought my AMD64 machine, you'll find if gaming is your thing (and whose isn't...) then you'll find you get more grunt for your $ with AMD. Plus, I'm not sure how easy the I procs are to overclock, but mine's got a neat little panel that I can tweak the frequencies, etc in windows!

Intel processors priced up to 20% more for the same average perfomance outdo the AMD in things like MPEG muxing, de/encoding, CAD work in general, and some other obscure benchmarks. (I'm sure an intel head will remind me).

Well I did it!!! Here is what I finally settled on -

eCollegePC:
Athlon 64 3000+ CPU
Base Price $859 included:
ASUS K8N-E Deluxe nForce3 250Mb Motherboard
1GB Ultra Fast DDR400 Memory
160GB 7200RPM Serial ATA150 Hard Drive
12X Dual Layer DVD+/-RW Drive w/Software
1.44 Floppy Disk Drive
256MB GeForce FX5700 Video Card DVI/TVout
56K V.92 Modem
1Gbit Marvell Ethernet Adapter
High quality 8-Channel AC97 Audio
420watt Black Raidmax Virgo Mid Tower Case
2 1394 Firewire Ports
6 USB 2.0 Ports (2 Front and 4 Rear Ports)
Keyboard, Mouse and Speakers
1 Year Parts and Labor Warranty
I upgraded the video card to the:
256MB ATI Radeon X800 Pro DDR DVI/TV AGP - for an extra $309
and added Microsoft Windows XP Professional for $155. (A friend wants to switch my XP Pro for her XP home so that will make up the $50 difference, since XP Home is better for gaming.)
Total from ecollegePC: $1,323

I ordered the smallest 19" CRT monitor I could find. It is the:
CRT 19", Hyundai ImageQuest, Q995, 1600x1200, 0.25mm, DynaFlat-X
for a total of $214.40 w/shipping. I read about it on a gaming retail site but ordered it from: http://www.adamant.com/itemInfo.asp?GotoID=ITEM&Product=MNH-Q995&PrdAbr=MNH-Q995&DB=Products&menu=PARTS

Total for system: $1,537.40 USD

I emailed eCollegePC re: the copper heat sink fan vs. the aluminum standard one and this was his reply, and I quote:
"I would not worry about going with a copper heatsink. If you were going to order a Athlon 3800+ or 4000+ maybe but the 3000+ does not run that hot so the standard AMD fan will work fine. You have everything you need below for a great gaming system. As for a 19" CRT monitor the one for the link you have below will work fine. The price on it is better than ours so I would go with it."

I liked that he was honest re: the monitor and that gave me a good feeling.

So what started out as a simple journey to find a roughly $500ish computer to play FS2004 ended up costing me a bit more, but still much less than I originally thought I would need to pay after starting my research. The system has to be sent to our office (remember we work together) and I have those bases covered. And the FS2004 game is going to be coming from me now I think I'm going to order Italy Scenery Vol. 1 as well.

My plan is to set it up Christmas Eve after he goes to bed (picture fingers crossed icon here).

Thanks again for all your help and I'll be sure to introduce him to this forum.

I am very happy to see that you have both decided and have ordered the computer and a nice size monitor.
While I don't agree with him about the CPU fan that case is well ventilated and should be able to keep it cool.
Don't forget to buy an anti virus. Norton AV only don't get the entire suite.
Before you hook it to the internet load the AV and check that you have XP with SP2 already loaded so that you have a firewall already in place.
After that the first place to go to would be Windows Update to download the latest patches for the operating system.
Make certain you have DirectX 9.0c.
Set the built in pop-up-stopper in the browser and he's off to the races.
Load the flight sim, load the patch and then see how it fly's.


http://flyawaysimulation.com/downloads/files/2795/flight-simulator-2004-update-v91/

Nice PC

Just one thing.................I hope he gets to bed early as the update of Windows can take a bit of time Do as radarman says and add the firewall and A/V 1st and you should be fine

Oh and how about one last crimbo pressy,make this his default page

Please come back and let us know how he gets on and who he is when he starts posting

Good luck and Happy Holidays

Cute idea!!!!!!!!

And didn't forget about the Anti Virus, just don't have a copy yet.

Thanks for the tips

GREAT JOB WITH THE VIDEO CARD UPGRADE!!! DONT GET MUCH BETTER THAN THAT!!!

Well, it does, but what you've got will run ANYthing you can think of now, A friend of mine has one, and hes happy with it. I nearly bought it from him, but opted for the X800XT PE.

I just now found out that U have a huge hard drive. If it is not to late don’t forget to set the right partition on that drive and I would say at least to 3 subdrives :25Gb 50Gb and the rest.(or some thing near to that)
Good luck and see U on the web