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Failing the Instrument Checkride

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Guest
Guest





Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2003 11:59 pm 

Every time that I enter the hold over the SEA VOR on the instrument checkride I fail the checkride. I am holding 3000' and rolling out right on 320 for the outbound leg of the hold. As soon as I roll out on 320 I bust.
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Chris330
Guest





Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2003 10:57 am 

No shit brother. Same thing happened to me. Eventually I just setup my own flight in bad weather and flew the exact same course as the checkride. I passed myself. Also had problems with the ATC too not recognising changes in ircraft heading. When I bought this game I thought I was buying real quality. In fact I was buying a game that has not been finished (or tested) Cool
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Guest






Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2003 3:07 am 

Mad

No shit is right!! Damn this crap. It's not like me to give up but I said to hell with it and moved on to the commercial ticket (I'm pissed with that too but for other reasons). I have about 55 hours PIC time in real aircraft from 150's to 172 to glider, tomahawk etc.. Don't tell me I'm not doing everything right!! I hate that bitch examiner!!

I passed the student and got a private cert. not the cutesy cutting of the shirt tails as promised, private checkride was easy and now, no way in hell to pass the instrument. Microsoft has pissed me off yet again!
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Fullflaps
Trainee
Trainee

Pro Member

Joined: Oct 08, 2003
Posts: 2
Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2003 5:20 am 

For FS 2004

When the Dragon Lady sez' turn left to 160^ (and climb to 3000') and fly direct to SEA-VOR she means "direct", so intercept the R-160.

I have read directions from FS2002 that say cross at 140^ L to 110^ or 160^ and do a parallel entry, none worked for me in FS 2004. Even MS own instructions say "Cross SEA VOR on any heading". Tried that!

Try a "teardrop" entry IE: Cross SEA-VOR on 160^ at 3000', Standard left turn to 110^ (140-30=110). Stay on 110^ for 1 minute, Setting NAV1 to 320^.
Make a standard right turn to intercept the R-320 inbound course. Cross SEA-VOR fix and proceed with the holding pattern.

Hopefully this will work for you too and end the dreded "you did not enter the holding pattern correctly" and the "sorry...." in the middle of your turn

Fullflaps
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Guest
Guest





Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 3:29 am 

I'm having similar issues; however, I can't get to the hold. As I go missed during the first section and cross PARKK, I'm told that the check ride is over.

The lady indicates that I failed to track the 338 course inbound AND that I fail to track 339 during the missed. However I KNOW that I am performing these tasks correctly.

Any thoughts? I am tempted to just move on (as I KNOW I understand the lesson - I am truly Instrument rated), but my meticulous nature does NOT permit me to give up. I do need help though!

BTW - this is a terrific site!
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Randalism
Trainee
Trainee

Pro Member

Joined: Dec 09, 2003
Posts: 5
Location: Boston, MA USA
Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 8:49 pm 

Fullflaps,
When reviewing the text for the checkride, I found the initial runway number to be wrong (16R and not 34R). Once I found this out by flying the actual VOR approach, I flew fine up to the "Hold on 140 SEA VOR" portion. I try direct entry, intercept 140 and make standard right turn when crossing over the SEA VOR.

Could there be a flaw in the actual fix heading (is it really 320 and not 140)?

Once I finish with the teardrop entry, will I be executing a "standard" holding pattern (right turns) or is this information also backwards?

I have read (in German and Spanish) about pilots who passed this checkride by performing the teardrop entry you suggest (although the Google translator called one of them a "Parallel Entry"). They also reported that they get directed to Boeing Field before entering the first turn of the actual holding pattern.

I think I am more confused now than I was when I started looking into this...

Confused
"A landing is merely a controlled crash."
- Unknown
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Guest






Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2003 5:36 am 

Hi everyone,
passed the IR checkride few days back and it was handful...there are certain things that you MUST do to make the lady happy.

most people have problems with the HOLD. Another potential area is the procedure turn after the VOR hold.

I know someone who has successfully entered the hold with a tear drop entry...however it never worked for me...Parallel entry works for me. its 100% predictable if u do it right...just fly standard turns

after passing PARKK, as per the lady's instructions, u start left turn....the moment u reach a heading of 160, she will ask you to head directly to SEA VOR...I turn the OBS1 to centre the needle and fly directly to SEA VOR...(generally the heading here around 145)

PLEASE NOTE: The instructions are to HOLD on the 140 radial (this means its a heading of 320 inbound, dont get confused here)

Further at 0.4 DME (overhead SEA VOR) turn left to a heading of 140 to enter parallel entry in the hold...fly for a min & turn right to intercept the 320 inbound (140 radial) and complete the VOR hold with standard turns...

After the hold she will direct you to NOLLA for procedure turn -ILS...
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Guest






Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2003 5:49 am 

Anonymous wrote:
Further at 0.4 DME (overhead SEA VOR) turn left to a heading of 140 to enter parallel entry in the hold...fly for a min & turn right to intercept the 320 inbound (140 radial) and complete the VOR hold with standard turns...


Sorry for the right turn above....its LEFT TURN (after flying 1 min) to intercept the 140 radial

cheers,
extra
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Guest






Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2003 7:31 am 

The flight analysis looks like this...
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rayz
Guest





Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2003 4:58 am 

this is driving me nuts! I have tried to do this for 4 hours! I need to know exactly what to do. This what I have been doing. Fly to SEA VOR(heading of 339 degrees). Follow alt changes till she says to go into HOLD. I stay on course 339 and climb to 2100 feet. I folow this couse and she never tells me to turn. After awhile past PARKK, she says I failed. I tried climbing to 3000 feet after told to HOLD and still I get failed. If I try to turn at PARKK without her saying to do so, it says to return to 338 course heading! From what I have read from GUEST, after I reach PARKK, she SHOULD say to turn LEFT and as soon as you do to about 160 degrees, she SHOULD say to go directly to SEA VOR, which turns out to be 145 degrees. He also says he changes OBS to point directly at SEA VOR(145 ?). Then after .4 DME to SEA VOR, I should turn LEFT to 140 degrees, fly for a minute and turn RIGHT to intercept 320 radial. And to then make procedure turns(45 degee turns?) to keep HOLD pattern. Now what am I doing wrong? Any help would be appreciated.

Rayz Shocked
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Guest






Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2003 6:58 am 

Hi Rayz,
Does she fail you by saying that 'you have not tracked the 338 course' ?

Here are a few clarification:

The first evaluation is at about 5 to 5.5 NM after you pass SEA VOR..here she will ask you to turn left ONLY if you pass this evaluation. Initially I had a problem here too, you MUST track the 338 course after you pass SEA VOR...one thing I have noticed is that you must NOT get any gold messages (telling you that you are off course, etc) to successfully clear this checkride....

to track the 338 course, here is what I do.

Fly the VOR approach as published with OBS1 to 339. (you dont have a problem here)...pass the SEA VOR at little over 840 feet. The moment you pass SEA VOR, she will ask you to do the missed approach.
Here, I turn the OBS1 to 338 and climb to 2100 and maintain 338 heading...use shift + Z (3 times) when u start the chkride to dispaly the digital read out...you have to track the course with max 2 degree changes...and make sure you are not too off to get you a gold message....the best way is to track the SEA VOR with min deflection on the needle (make very small changes when u are close to the VOR)
at around 5-5.2 NM, she will do the first evaluation. If you pass, she will ask you to turn left.
make sure you pass PARKK (OM will blink) and then start left turn (set OBS1 to 160)
Rest of the things mentioned by you are all correct except:
when u enter HOLD with a heading on 140 and flying for 1 min you have to turn LEFT (and not right) to Intercept 320 (140 radial)..and in the HOLD you fly standard 2 min turns...

the procedure turn comes later after you complete the VOR hold successfully...

good luck,
Extra
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rayz
Guest





Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2003 7:29 am 

Thank you for replying. I actually using the Visual Flight Guides so I am tracking exactly on the 339 course. I drop down to the lower altitudes pretty fast and then pull up to level off at the 3000 and 1600 feet levels. as soon as I get to SEA VOR, I get a command to lower to 840 feet, but I immediatly get a command to pull up and go into HOLD pattern. So I am at 1600 feet and I pull up to 2100 feet from there. I know it might be a pain, but that flight analysis of yours would be much better with the altitude track. I am seriuosly thinking of skipping this checkride, but its kicking my ass and I hate that! What if my speed drops below 100 as I climb? Can you let me know if you ever exceed any of the limits and not receive a gold message? Thanks again for your time.

rayz
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alchemist81
Guest





Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2003 2:15 am 

After having successfully completed the instrument checkride and having poured over the code for this ride, I have a lot of information to share with those of you who are trying to pass this lesson. I believe the knowledge and experience I have acquired may relieve you of a lot of frustrations.

Here is the most important piece of information. We are expected to use a teardrop approach to enter the holding pattern; however, if you do it the way you've been taught in previous lessons, you will fail. The reason for this is you are timed beginning with your passage over the VOR. What resets the timer is the appearance of the off flag on the VOR. So, if you don't fly overtop the VOR, the off flag will not appear and the timer will not be reset. The previous reset point is when you passed over PARKS. That's a lot of time. The limit is 300 (but I' not sure what the units are. These 300 units seem to correspond to 1 minute.). Within this limit, you're expected to turn left to approx'ly 110 degrees, fly for 1 minute, then turn right to intercept the 140 radial inbound. This can't be done. One way to make it work is to fly for only ~ 30 seconds after passing the VOR and having turned onto the 110 degree heading and then turn a little sharper than a stardard rate turn to intercept the 140 degree radial. You must get to within 0.4nm before the timer runs out. I was only able to do this twice but failed for other reasons. Today, I changed the allotted time in the '\Program Files\Microsoft Games\Flight Simulator 9\Lessons\instr.abl' file for this section from 300 to 900. Then, I was able to complete the entire course including using the teardrop entrance into the holding pattern as instructed and get my certificate. All this leads me to believe either the timer was mistakenly set too short or there is a flaw in the program logic. It's quite likely that the 300 units of time could have been meant to make sure we don't take too long before we turn to intercept the inbound radial the first time. Unfortunately, it is all the time we are allotted to perform the entire entrance into the holding pattern.

alchemist81@netscape.net
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Valen
Guest





Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 10:40 pm 

I found this page via Google, having had some 'difficulties' with this checkride myself. After reading all the posts and looking into this myself, I present the Final Analysis of this bug(!) so that it may hopefully help others who come after me and have the same problem.

Now, the previous post points the right way in that one needs to look into the script, but the conclusion wasn't quite correct. The actual issue is thus:

Up until the point where you travel towards PARKK at 2100ft everything is fine. Even as you're told to climb to 3000ft and turn left to 160 all is good.

But..

As you cross 150 degrees, things go terribly wrong. The timer is reset at this point, but there used to be an in-between step in the script which meant for OBS1 to be set to 159 degrees, and it seems the idea was that you fly inbound at 159 towards SEA VOR. Instead, for whatever reason (maybe they felt it better to let the user choose the approach), the script jumps to the next step. This checks whether the To/From Indicator is NOT "To". This would happen as you cross SEA VOR, but instead the OBS is (normally) still set at 339 with the OBS showing "From", and so the script jumps to the even next step which checks whether you are crossing SEA VOR on the 140 radial inbound (flying 320 degrees), for which you now have 5 minutes time (referring to the previous post: those '300' are indeed seconds). Now remember that at this very moment, you are still in a left-turn from PARKK and just crossed a 150 degrees heading, instead of flying over SEA, at which point 5 minutes would be plenty of time for any maneuver to get on the 140 radial. Oops.

Solutions:

Probably the easiest: Set OBS1 to around 160 degrees after you're told to turn left and climb to 3000ft, and before you reach a heading of 150 degrees.

Permanent: Edit "Flight Simulator 9\Lessons\instr\Rating Checkride.abl" (e.g. drag it into Notepad), find the line with "fnSQ_ChangeState(CaseHold1Entry_2);", and make a new line above it saying "VHFNAV1.OBS = 159;" (no quotes). This will set OBS1 to 159 degrees (at the end of the left-turn) as originally intended, and before it checks whether you're flying towards it.

There certainly would be more elegant ways to modify the script, but this solution will work just fine. You'll have 5 minutes after crossing SEA VOR to enter the holding pattern any way you please. Just hold 3000ft and 100 knots. As a final tip, begin your first standard-rate turn as soon as OBS1 switches away from "To" when entering the holding pattern, else you'll get a message very quickly to bank 20 degrees, and can't pass the checkride anymore.

Have Fun!
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Skypple
Guest





Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 6:29 pm 

hi...
I am trying pass this checkride but no sucess in HOLD ... i am getting the 140 radial to VOR and when pass it i turn to right 180 degrees, straight for 1 min then turn again 180 degrees to right to intercept again 140 radial inbound...why this method is wrong ???

tks
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Skypple
Guest





Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2004 2:02 am 

Hi...i was doing a mistake in HOLD, now i understood the error, i now pass the HOLD but when very close to VOR (in 320 inbound course) he say me to down to 2200 and proceed to Nolla, then i set the radio to 110.9 but dont works...i tryed track the 326 course outbond (from sea VOR) but no sucess...what i need to do ???

tks
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Guest






Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2004 10:38 am 

Hi
set NAV1 to 110.9 and OBS1 to 130

You could also set ADF to 362 for NOLLA and/or set GPS to NOLLA waypoint. This certainly helps to fly to NOLLA

hope this helps,
Extra
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Guest Y
Guest





Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2004 5:14 pm 

Hi,
I failed a few times too and now I will try out the solutions given.
Thanks for that.
I noticed another sort of bug. When I check out the analyses I find that I do not cross FACTS, nor Millt intersections and neither ODD. Still I believe I crossed them smack on their heads following the given radial 338 to SEA VOR correctly. Looking at the map analyses I see that my flightpath passes the waypoints too far to the east. Therefore I believe She says I didnot maintain course, nor heading, neither altitude at the given waypoints. Simply because I did not seem to be there according to the program. Am I right and does this make any sense?

Thanks and regards
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Skypple
Guest





Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2004 9:10 pm 

Thanks Guest, today I pass the checkride...really i dont found any bug in this checkride, simply need proceed correctly to pass...i use tear drop to enter in hold pattern, is the best method and more easy...

ciao
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skypple
Guest





Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2004 9:13 pm 

sorry, today i PASSED*.... sorry my english

ciao
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Guest Y
Guest





Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 9:24 am 

Skypple, thanks for your reply.
I will give it a few more tries.
When I pass, I will tell you.
regards.
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Skip Cole
Guest





Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 11:40 pm 

This worked for FS2002
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Guest






Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 7:49 pm 

I find that there is nothing wrong with the holding. I asked my instructor how it is done and he said to cross the VOR on a heading of 140 degrees and then perform a parallel entry into the holding patter. This worked for me just fine but when the lady tells me to descend to 2200 and head to the NOLLA outer marker and set the radios to the correct frequency. I do not how I should set the radios for I always fail here. I know I set them to the ILS frequency (110.9) but when and what OBS?
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Guest2
Guest





Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 2:17 am 

Folks,

When this starts on my box I am several miles south of TCM. I'm on a heading of 066. Do I just keep flying 066 and then turn to 338 to center the SEA needle, or should I head north until on the 066 radial, turn east, then to 338 to center the needle.

Thanks!
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A japanese FS fun
Guest





Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 2:25 pm 

Today I finally passed the instrument flight checkride. Very Happy

I think there's another bug.
It wasn't checked whether I had flown throgh the back course of Localizer.
When I came to near NOLLA, she said that I was cleared to land R/W 13R.
I just turned left to HDG320 immediately.
In 10 seconds, I turned left to HDG265, and took a procedure turn.
That's it!

But,there's even more to check.
When I turn to HDG 265 and the bank becomes within four degrees,
time count begins, and I have to keep the bank within 5 degrees until
time count becomes 60 seconds .
This problem can be soloved by modifying the script.(rating_checkride.abl)

I found these bugs by reading the script.
I'm not sure that these bugs happen only in Japanese version.
Sorry for my bad english.
I was helped to enter the holding pattern,so I'd like to provide
some informations about this problem.
Smile
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Audrey
Guest





Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 12:35 pm 

hey this is audrey planes are ok but very weird but were in math stragey and it's boring well this is rogers ohio signing out 4 all my negros at beaver local middle school
audrey Twisted Evil [/b]
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Guest






Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 7:43 am 

If I have the symantics right, you are tracking the 140 COURSE to the SEA vor. If you cross the SEA vor on the 140 course you are in a gray area as far as holding technique. If you cross on a 141 heading should be a parallel entry (turn left to 140, 1 min, turn in the direction of the holding pattern "left", reintercept the 140 radial inbound (320 COURSE). If you cross on a 139 heading you should teardrop (left 110, 1 min, right to roughly 320 to intercept 140 radial inbound (320 course ). Real world, if you're conveniently aligned to teardrop, I would. If you've been turning to 180 you are turning away from holding airspace and venturing into the unknown.

If you want, draw the picture. INbound leg 320 course to SEA vor, right turn outbound on a 140 "no wind" heading 1 min, rt to roughly 320 to reintercept 320 course to "140 radial inbound"
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Mathew Turnell
Guest





Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2004 7:50 pm 

Just passed the checkride Very Happy , and I would like to add some key hints to remember when flying the examen;

*When heading to Parkk, use heading 341 instead of 339, that will take you close enough to it, and set the OBS just after you initiate the missed approach.

*Modify the original script just like our friend above did, it will work.

*Remember to set the OBS to 320 before crossing SEA and starting the procedure turn (you can choose anyone, as long as it doesn't take more than 5 min).

*After giving one lap at SEA, procede 326 outbound for about 5 sec (descending to 2200ft), than pause the simulator and tune NAV1 to Boeing's Field ILS (110.9) and OBS to 130 ( Mad Yes, your are forced to set OBS for this ILS approach, and you need to pause because the script cheks this setting only 30 secs after SEA!)

*Procede to NOLLA using NAV2 OBS 326 and the ADF at 362.0

The following parts are the easiests, and I'm sure you won't have any problems.

If you want, there is a Message Board similar to this one with other Important information.

Nice flying!! Surprised
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Guest






Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2004 7:52 pm 

Mathew Turnell wrote:


*Modify the original script just like our friend above did, it will work.



I mean, how Valen suggested, at page 1 Embarassed
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IFR_checkride
Guest





Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 10:39 am 

Check out

http://www.simviation.com/fshelp.htm
FS2004 section - Inside the FS2004 Instrument Rating Checkride

for a detailed explanation of the proceedures required and bugs in the checkride.
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