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ARGH!!

Pro Member Captain
Kareem El-Sadi (crosscheck9) Captain

Feeling very, very angry regarding the flight that I just ended now!!

Here's what happened.

Departed from Brussels National in my BA757 on my way to Gatwick. Everything was working nicely, then I began on my approach. As I was passing through 10,000, ATC says "Speedbird 121, turn left heading 290, expect vectors ILS r/w 26L. Okay, alls is going well -- I'm quite high, but I'll survive. So eventually I reach 2000, and I'm only 10 miles away, so I have to start getting some flaps down (I couldn't do it on the descent, because the aircraft couldn't slow down enough to allow me to do so). I disengage autothrottle, and I'm lined up nicely, so I can focus on speed for a few seconds here. I start to reduce the throttle, and increase flaps incremently, then I find myself passing 140Kts, so I increase flaps to 30, and then increase N1 to about 70%, because that seems to be about the figure I need to remain at a constant airspeed, considering my weight and flaps. At 70%, nothing is happening, and the the aircraft starts to pull below 124Kts. I'm getting nervous, and the aircraft attitude is getting quite high now, so I put in full thrust, and even then, the aircraft continues to lose speed. I'm coming up on 90kts, 85 kts, 83 kts, STALL!!. Now, having taken the lessons, I went into the stall exit procedure, and tried to reorient myself. Throttle was seeming to be a very tough issue for me, because I couldn't stablize it. It would either get my airspeed to low, or too high, and I couldn't find equilibrium. At this point, I had reclimbed to 2000, and was holding that altitude. Then, glideslope is finally active, so I try to follow it, by reducing airspeed slightly, and trimming down. I trim down a little but > no reaction - A little more > no reaction -- I nervously trim a lot > The nose attitude goes to -5, and at this pont, my airspeed is up to 143 kts. I thought to myself, a good pilot would go-around now, but I didn't have the time, so I just angrily quit. It seriously (excuse my language) pissed me off like crazy. Can someone tell me what went wrong. The weight of the aircraft was fine, so that can't be it.

This flight, however, marked the beginning of me using real world weather, and using the Winds Aloft Feature. Could that have been the factor that drove my 757 nuts?

Your fellow captain is in a pickle. Help is appreciated 😉

10 Responses

Pro Member Chief Captain
Jonathan (99jolegg) Chief Captain

A strange problem Dont Know

Any heavy aircraft does not respond well to drastic thrust movements. When you were passing 140kts, was the speed dropping fast? You should try to lower your speed incrementally with the flaps, i.e. maintain a speed and flap setting, then lower your speed and increase the flaps, rather than cut your speed and add full flaps because your speed will drop quickly and full thrust takes a while to take effect which could be why you stalled.
Most controls on heavy aircraft take a while to take effect, so when you trim, leave it a few seconds and then just push the nose down (or up) slightly and use trim to alleviate control pressure.

Hope that helps 😉

Pro Member Captain
Kareem El-Sadi (crosscheck9) Captain

99jolegg wrote:

maintain a speed and flap setting, then lower your speed and increase the flaps, rather than cut your speed and add full flaps because your speed will drop quickly and full thrust takes a while to take effect which could be why you stalled.

Well, initially, when I disengaged autothrottle, I didn't cut throttle. I just reduced the thrust output of the aircraft, and as the aircraft slowly lost airspeed, I would set out the flaps, and my hope was that by the time I reached the speed I was aiming for, the aircraft would have no trouble staying aloft, because I'd be at flaps 30, and generally, 70%N1 is what it requires.
I think it may have been quite fast for the aircraft to handle though, but I'd never expect such a reaction.

Although disheartened, I do plan on flying a similar route in the near future. Any suggestions and corrections before I hop into the 757, and get it back in the air. (BTW, I've flown this aircraft MANY times before, I would assume over 700 hours -- no where near FEM's record, but hey. . .)

Thanks 😉

Pro Member Chief Captain
pilotwannabe Chief Captain

I usually disengage the autopilot but keep the autothrottle engaged until i am a couple of seconds from flaring. 😉

Pro Member Captain
Kareem El-Sadi (crosscheck9) Captain

pilotwannabe wrote:

I usually disengage the autopilot but keep the autothrottle engaged until i am a couple of seconds from flaring. 😉

When you pass localizer altitude, procedure states that you should use throttle to increase or decrease your Rate of descent, so if I had enagaged autothrottle, I would have to nose up/down, which is, as far as I know, improper. 😉

Pro Member Chief Captain
pilotwannabe Chief Captain

Oh....I didn't realise. I usually adjust my rate of decent with pitch, is this wrong?? 😕

😀 😀 😀

Pro Member Chief Captain
Jonathan (99jolegg) Chief Captain

Small adjustments in pitch are fine but no, you shouldn't control your descent using pitch whilst keeping your throttles constant. Obviously is you are changing your throttles and you are descending a bit too fast, then you would pitch up slightly, as well as slightly increasing the throttle.

See how you get on with decreasing speed incrementally and waiting a few seconds for control surface changes to get over the inertia 😉

Pro Member Captain
Kareem El-Sadi (crosscheck9) Captain

Okay, gonna try a quickie from Dusseldorf to Gatwick, and I'll let you know how it goes 😉

Pro Member Trainee
wscott52 Trainee

pilotwannabe wrote:

Oh....I didn't realise. I usually adjust my rate of decent with pitch, is this wrong?? 😕

😀 😀 😀

Actually it depends. Small aircraft doing a VFR approach you're taught to use pitch to maintain airspeed and throttle to control rate of descent. On an ILS approach you do the opposite, pitch to maintain rate of descent and throttle to maintain airspeed. I'm not sure why the difference.

Pro Member Captain
Kareem El-Sadi (crosscheck9) Captain

Ladies and Gentlement, once again, you've come through for me 😉

I listened to Jon's advice, and rather than just slowing down once, and quickly while on final, I reduced my speed incremently during different phases of the approach, and after one go-around at Gatwick, life was good again 😉

The thing is, in my other flight, I didn't have the option of slowing down early, because the aircraft just wouldn't budge, and I didn't want spoilers up for 8000ft of descent, for realism purposes 😉

Pro Member Chief Captain
pilotwannabe Chief Captain

Glad you solved your problem Crosscheck9 😉

😀 😀 😀

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