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Best way to upgrade?

Pro Member Chief Captain
CrashGordon Chief Captain

Logic tells me the best way to go is to wait for Vista, and then get a machine with the specs to run FSX properly. However, I have also been considering spending $150 and doubling ther RAM in this computer, along with a cheap 256MB graphics card to replace the onboard Intel chip. That would run an additional $80.

The other alternative is to build one from components, but I'd need to get some pricing data.

I've looked at stuff like Alienware, but they strike me as being overpriced.

All ideas are welcome.

Pro Member Chief Captain
Greekman72 Chief Captain

Build a system ready for Vista.Get a cheap GFX until DX10 ones comes to market.Then replace only your GFX.My opinion. 😉

Pro Member Chief Captain
CrashGordon Chief Captain

Greekman72 wrote:

Build a system ready for Vista.Get a cheap GFX until DX10 ones comes to market.Then replace only your GFX.My opinion. 😉

That means paying for not only, an extra GFX card, but an upgrade to Vista. as well.

I might consider getting the peripheral components, such as case, power supply,drives, etc, but wait until Vista comes out to get the motherboard (with OEM Vista) graphics card and RAM. That way I don't get the whole bill at once. 🙄

Pro Member Chief Captain
Greekman72 Chief Captain

If your problem is to not get the bill at once i agree. 😉

Pro Member Chief Captain
CrashGordon Chief Captain

Greekman72 wrote:

If your problem is to not get the bill at once i agree. 😉

I want to reduce the psychological impact, 😂 If I build one, it will have the 2nd fastest AMD dual core 64 bit processor (the fastest one always costs too much in relation to the % increase it gives), 4 GB RAM, 1TB RAID SATA array and a 512 MB GFX card.

That will probably give me specs that will be good for a bunch of years.

Pro Member Chief Captain
Greekman72 Chief Captain

CrashGordon wrote:

Greekman72 wrote:

If your problem is to not get the bill at once i agree. 😉

I want to reduce the psychological impact, 😂 If I build one, it will have the 2nd fastest AMD dual core 64 bit processor (the fastest one always costs too much in relation to the % increase it gives), 4 GB RAM, 1TB RAID SATA array and a 512 MB GFX card.

That will probably give me specs that will be good for a bunch of years.

Its all depending on your budget ❗

But.... Its hard to wait... 😂 Poke in Eye

Pro Member First Officer
PIC1stOfficer First Officer

You can never get too much computer is my thinking. Go for it as your pocket allows.
One thing for me is I hate to waste a program by putting it on a PC that is under powered. I would not buy a flight sim and then turn down all the programs goodies and sliders because my machine is pressured.
I want what I pay for.
I've got a lot of PC, but I've never been sorry for that, it makes me happy. 😀

Pro Member Chief Captain
RadarMan Chief Captain

Crash I was going to build one but I think my next is coming from this company.
http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/

You could drive over to them.
In fact if you do check them out let me know what you think.
I want to know if they out-source their tech support or is it local.

Radar

Pro Member Chief Captain
CrashGordon Chief Captain

Their prices aren't bad, but I wonder how much of the price goes to those idiotic...oops...I'm supposed to say stylish, cases.

Pro Member Chief Captain
CrashGordon Chief Captain

I've been tinkering around on their web site. How does this look?

$1680.00
(before all applicable rebates)
CASE: CoolerMaster Praetorian 730 RC-730 Aluminum Tower 420W Case (Black Color)
CPU: (Socket AM2) AMD Athlon™64 X2 4200+ Dual-Core CPU w/ HyperTransport Technology
MOTHERBOARD: (Socket AM2)ABIT KN9 SLI nForce 570 SLI MCP Chipset DDR2/800 SATA-II RAID 16x PCI-Express MBoard w/GbLAN, USB2.0, &7.1Audio
MEMORY: (Req.DDR2 MainBoard)2GB (2x1GB) PC6400 DDR2/800 Dual Channel Memory (Corsair Value Select or Major Brand)
VIDEO CARD: NEW !!! NVIDIA Geforce 7600 GS 512MB PCI Express x16 Video Card
VIDEO CARD 2: NONE
LCD Monitor: ViewSonic VX2025WM 20.1" Wide Screen Color TFT Active Matrix LCD Display Monitor
HARD DRIVE: Single Hard Drive (300GB SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 16MB Cache 7200RPM HDD)
Data Hard Drive: NONE
Optical Drive: (Special Price) 16X DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW DRIVE DUAL LAYER (BLACK COLOR)
Optical Drive 2: 16X DVD ROM (BLACK COLOR)
SOUND: HIGH DEFINITION ON-BOARD 7.1 AUDIO

Pro Member Chief Captain
Greekman72 Chief Captain

Not one HD...Two Disks (prefer 10000RPM) in RAID 0-Array Configuration.More speed. 😉

Power Supply?

I wont go for a Sound Card.Most New Motherboards offers more than great On Board Sound features.Spend this money for 1more GB of RAM.

I agree with the rest choices. 👍
Your monitor rules. Punk
GFX = Bow Down Bow Down Bow Down

My opinion ❗

Pro Member Chief Captain
RadarMan Chief Captain

I agree with GM on the h/d I would go 2 300's SataII and 850-1000w p/s.
I want a sound card thats not intergrated.
Check out this post.
https://forum.flyawaysimulation.com/forum/topic/21274/how-much-of-power-supply-do-you-need/

Radar

Pro Member Chief Captain
CrashGordon Chief Captain

Does this float your boat better. Since FS is not disk intensive, the 10K RPM drives are unnecessary. I agree that a second HD is needed. I also upgraded the OS from Media Center to XP Pro SP2. It also bumps the power supply up to 500W.

The question now is, will this be enough to make me not give a damn about Vista and DX10?

$1862.00
(before all applicable rebates)
CASE: CoolerMaster Praetorian 730 RC-730 Aluminum Tower 420W Case (Black Color)
CPU: (Socket AM2) AMD Athlon™64 X2 4200+ Dual-Core CPU w/ HyperTransport Technology
MOTHERBOARD: (Socket AM2)ABIT KN9 SLI nForce 570 SLI MCP Chipset DDR2/800 SATA-II RAID 16x PCI-Express MBoard w/GbLAN, USB2.0, &7.1Audio
MEMORY: (Req.DDR2 MainBoard)2GB (2x1GB) PC6400 DDR2/800 Dual Channel Memory (Corsair Value Select or Major Brand)
VIDEO CARD: NEW !!! NVIDIA Geforce 7600 GS 512MB PCI Express x16 Video Card
VIDEO CARD 2: NONE
LCD Monitor: ViewSonic VX2025WM 20.1" Wide Screen Color TFT Active Matrix LCD Display Monitor
HARD DRIVE: Single Hard Drive (300GB SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 16MB Cache 7200RPM HDD)
Data Hard Drive: 300GB SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 16MB Cache 7200RPM Hard Drive
Optical Drive: (Special Price) 16X DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW DRIVE DUAL LAYER (BLACK COLOR)
Optical Drive 2: 16X DVD ROM (BLACK COLOR)
SOUND: HIGH DEFINITION ON-BOARD 7.1 AUDIO

Pro Member Chief Captain
Greekman72 Chief Captain

Notice:

Not a second hard drive as a slave.
The 2 SATA drives in Array configuration are going to be your C drive.If you need a slave one you have to get a third drive

Example:
If you want 300GB of space get 2 x 150GB SATAII in RAID 0-Array as C (Boot-Master Drive)
Your system will show them as one with 300GB of space.
Any choice(Even an IDE one)as a Slave ''D''.

Last week i purchase this HD (x 2) ➡

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=190

I spend 530euros for both (price in Greece)and I had obvious results in Boot,Running, etc.FS starts in half time than with the previous IDE drive.

I also have a 200GB IDE as Slave in my BOX and an external 200GB USB-Firewire one.(i use the Firewire configuration).

Never a faster device(10000RPM)is unnecessary. 😉
Except if you not running other applications in your system except FSX.

Anyway you can get an 7500RPM if you think that its useless ,but you must not get only one SATA drive.

Pro Member Chief Captain
CrashGordon Chief Captain

I am not getting the logic here. Assuming that I don't need the instant gratification of having FS start faster, and I am not running something mission-critical that is intolerant of drive failure, why would I need a 10K RPM drive or a RAID array? Once FS is running, acquiring additional data from the hard drive has never been a problem. So why all the attention to hard drives.? 😕

Pro Member Chief Captain
Greekman72 Chief Captain

What's the difference between a car with 100ps and one with 200ps?
You can travel with both and have a nice trip...What you finally choose depends on what you finally need 😉

RAID 0-Array ➡
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID_0

My opinion when i get something new is...If you have to do it ,do it once and do it right... 😉

Pro Member First Officer
KenTel First Officer

Well I have 2 SATA 1 drives and 2 SATA II drives, and they are NOT in any RAID config. I have read several topics on the tech forums on this subject, and the general consensus as I read them, is that it is a waste of hardware and Raid 0 is the biggest waster of the lot. Sorry GM. And just to add I have in the same computer 2 IDE drives. Yup it has 6 drives in all, can take 2 more internal, and 2 external, well 1 really as I have 1 external now a WD 250 SATA II, mainly used for graphics backup, well my main pastime is amateur digi photog. If I go out for a day, usually come back with at least 300 shots, and sometimes up to 3 times that amount. So backups are essential for me, and DVDs can get too tedious. And I need a lot of working space.

And CG a better PSU is really essential, surprising where all the power goes. A good 'fancy' case is not over spend if it's a well designed one with a slide out motherboard tray. I'd love to have the monitor very good choice there. The cpu is one below my +4400, if you can stretch to that, it has a larger cache on L2. The graphics is a bit sparing can you not go to the 7900GT? Mind on second thought, that could be a good choice, because of DX10, less loss when you upgrade to a DX10 compat card.

If you wait, the choice might be easier, but the price could be higher. I'm glad in a way, I've already done it, but I shall lose out on the graphics update for DX10. As I have 2 7950 cards in SLI. and they are not DX10 ready. YUK! 😞 😞

Pro Member Chief Captain
Tailhook Chief Captain

And CG a better PSU is really essential, surprising where all the power goes. A good 'fancy' case is not over spend if it's a well designed one with a slide out motherboard tray.

I wholeheartedly agree with KT here. The importance of a good PSU (if possible a well known brand with enough Watts) and a practical, decent Enclosure can not be stressed enough. This is an area where spending a few extra bucks will not be wasted and though we don't notice the benefits when the comp is new, we will as we start upgrading and adding even more peripherals.

Often overlooked and forgotten is the fact that in many countries prices for hardware and other computer related items drop substantially after Xmas. For someone who can wait this would be another point to consider.

Pro Member Chief Captain
Solotwo Chief Captain

Or just use a better looking FS2004 until Vista comes out 100% and in the mean time save up and then buy one with Vista included. Thats my plane.

This is something I've been looking at from Falcon Northwest.

SilverStone TJ04 Black Chassis
Silverstone 750Watt Modular Power Supply
Asus P5N32-SLI SE DLX - SLI Capable
Intel Core 2 Duo E6700 2.66GHz
Zalman CNPS7000LED ALCU (Intel)
Corsair 4GB TwinX DDR2 8500C5 W/EPP
2x nVidia GeForce 7950 GX2 2048mb
Creative Labs X-Fi Sound card
Western Digital 250GB 16MB Cache SATA 2
Sony DRU820A Dual Layer DVD+-/RW
Sony 16X DVD-ROM
Microsoft Windows XP Professional
Windowed Side Panel - Icon Case
Cold Cathode - Red

System Price: $ 5,282.66

Minus XP of course. For once now that I have the money I want to get a computer built thats overkill and will be able to use for quite awhle, and not a dell.

I hate computers.

Pro Member Chief Captain
Greekman72 Chief Captain

Sorry for what dear friend Ken-Tel. 😀 😉
We read and we decide...I disagree that its a waste of hardware but i repsect your opinion my friend.Final choices are always peronal 😀

Different opinions are acceptable and respectable especially from people like you ❗ 😉

I agree about PS. 😉

Pro Member First Officer
KenTel First Officer

Greekman you are always correct, at the end of the day, it is always our own personal choice, and our money being spent. I must be honest, I have never tried any RAID configurations, so all my knowledge? is just from reading forums/magazines etc. I have chosen not to use RAID, but will be very interested in your experience with it, when you have it.

🍻

Pro Member Chief Captain
CrashGordon Chief Captain

I wonder how a contest between RAID 0 vs a dedicated drive for FSX would turn out.

Pro Member First Officer
KenTel First Officer

Interesting question, not sure if I would bet either way on that. I have been told the most efficient way, at that time (3 months or so ago), is to have Maximum memory, and make sure your pagefile/swapfile is on the fastest drive you have, and not the same drive as your programs/data are on. I have a partition solely for my pagefile, the partition is 8Gbs, with pagefile set 1024Mb to 4096Mb, leaving plenty of headroom. This is on one of my SATA II HDs. It all works OK, but whether that thinking is now out of date, due to advances in technology, I don't know.

The rest of the performance is down to how much you can afford. Like most others, I'm continually trying to get more efficiency. Latest doo dad I have, is a lucky bid on eBay, a Logitech G7 Mouse (with no tail), very pleasing item to use, with the ability of changing the dpi, with the click of a button. Great for image editing (Make it slow), and great for gaming (set it fast), had a few mice, but this is the best!

Pro Member Chief Captain
Greekman72 Chief Captain

KenTel wrote:

Greekman you are always correct, at the end of the day, it is always our own personal choice, and our money being spent. I must be honest, I have never tried any RAID configurations, so all my knowledge? is just from reading forums/magazines etc. I have chosen not to use RAID, but will be very interested in your experience with it, when you have it.

🍻

I'm not more correct than anyone here dear friend. 😀
I read some things too and i discuss it also with people which have this configurations so i decide to proceed.
And I'm 100% satisfied from what i get.
As i have to format and to install everything from the beginning i notice difference even to the time that OS takes to be installed.
But the major differences are -In Boot (about 15' seconds faster)
-In Programs running(Even my wife ,which use Autocad for her Job(and hates computers in general 😂 )notice difference in program's loading and saving)
-And finally FS starts faster start and load faster even the flights even the ''heavy'' Photorealistic Scenery areas(Its well know how much time does it take to load the a photorealistic scenery like Project Canarias for example)

Keep on mind that i notice all these things with the exact set-up as in my old IDE drive.Not more not less programs installed.

I'm sorry for hi-jacking Crash's post about his upgrade Embarassed

😉

Pro Member First Officer
KenTel First Officer

With the greatest of apologies to Crash, I must answer GM72. I was unaware you were already using RAID 0 GM, so with this in my mind, if I think my set up is running too slow when eventually I have FSX, I may be tempted to give RAID a trial.

Thank You Crash for your forbearance! 😉 😉

Pro Member Chief Captain
CrashGordon Chief Captain

Not hijacked. Useful information.

I am now leaning toward building from components and sperading out the process over a few months so it doesn't conflict with plans to get a 52" HDTV. 😀

I think I will start with the case, drives and other peripherals and wind up getting the motherboard, CPU GFX card and RAM last, so I can pick up an OEM Vista and not have to buy two GFX cards. I will use the information gotten here to its best advantage. 😀

Pro Member Chief Captain
Greekman72 Chief Captain

KenTel wrote:

With the greatest of apologies to Crash, I must answer GM72. I was unaware you were already using RAID 0 GM, so with this in my mind, if I think my set up is running too slow when eventually I have FSX, I may be tempted to give RAID a trial.

Thank You Crash for your forbearance! 😉 😉

Apologizing Embarassed to Crash too but i have to answer to Ken-Tel 😂 😂 😂

According to the great system you already have you wont notice that your system runs slow... ❗
But if you do it you wont believe too, that it could runs faster 😉

🍻

Pro Member Chief Captain
Greekman72 Chief Captain

CrashGordon wrote:

Not hijacked. Useful information.

I am now leaning toward building from components and sperading out the process over a few months so it doesn't conflict with plans to get a 52" HDTV. 😀

I think I will start with the case, drives and other peripherals and wind up getting the motherboard, CPU GFX card and RAM last, so I can pick up an OEM Vista and not have to buy two GFX cards. I will use the information gotten here to its best advantage. 😀

Good choice... 😉

I beg for an asnwer Bow Down ....Did Legendarie C-130 runs OK in FSX???Have you install it?

Pro Member Chief Captain
CrashGordon Chief Captain

I will try to se if the model works. I am not going to attempt to see if the gauges work.

Pro Member Chief Captain
Greekman72 Chief Captain

CrashGordon wrote:

I will try to se if the model works. I am not going to attempt to see if the gauges work.

Why? ❓

Pro Member Chief Captain
CrashGordon Chief Captain

Because 😂 Anyway, FSX didn't recognize the model. Crying or Very sad

Pro Member Chief Captain
Greekman72 Chief Captain

CrashGordon wrote:

Because 😂 Anyway, FSX didn't recognize the model. Crying or Very sad

DONT BUY FSX..ITS A RUBBISH ❗ 🙂) 🙂) 🙂) Liar 😉 (kidding of course)

Pro Member First Officer
KenTel First Officer

This is just for Crash, so he can see what Dual-Core can do. Sadly still on fs9, but enjoying it just the same.

This is with most settings at high or close to high, I removed my hold at 30fps just for this shot. When fixed at 30fps, no blips, jerks (Only me!), stutters, very smooth.

If this is too large then I shall either remove or shrink it!

A lovely old Valiant @ fl35, over East Anglia, after leaving EGSU.

Pro Member First Officer
KenTel First Officer

CrashGordon wrote:

Because 😂 Anyway, FSX didn't recognize the model. Crying or Very sad

I think we will have to change GM's name, to LW72 in full "Leathal Weapon 72"

🙂) Oops! Surrender

Pro Member Chief Captain
Greekman72 Chief Captain

ROFL ROFL ROFL

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