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Glued to The Runway !!

Pro Member Trainee
Aceman9 Trainee

Hi everyone,

I've pretty much lost most of my hair over this problem I'm having in FS9. I'm ready to listen to any suggestions you might have..however weird...even if it involves shaving off the remaining hairs off my bonce (that's slang for HEAD around these parts).

Here's an example of the problem i'm having.

When trying to take off with the default fs9 747-400 plane ( Default settings all around) I get up to 150Knts on the runway pull all the way back and NOTHING. The plane feels like it wants to take off but is struggling against some invisible force.

It isn't until I hit 180KNOTS or more that the nose wheel even BEGINS to part company with the tarmac. By the time all the wheels are in the air I'm doing in excess 200 KNOTS! And remember, this is with the yoke pulled all the way back (I actually use keyboard controls).

Even when airborne the elevators don't seem to respond the way they used to . I mean before I used to be able to pull the wings off a 747 in high G turns.

Infact it's not just the 747 that's affected. All my planes seem to have developed sluggish elevators including the add on ones and all are slow to take off.

Just can't figure it out. I've done full uninstall/ Reinstall several times to no avail.

HELP !

46 Responses

Pro Member First Officer
Ed Reagle (edr1073) First Officer

I'll take a stab at it. You may want to upgrade your FS9 to 9.1. It is free and it can be done from here or Microsoft's site ae well.

Ok you have a yoke that's good I am gealous a little I have a joy stick though not as bad as the keyboarding. I didn't have to do this but I have watched what other people have gone through over the years and as it seems The weight of the aircraft, the fuel and the pax have alot to do with flight. So what Iam saying here is try and reload your fuel if its not a long haul. Make sure that you have the length of runway required for the Queen of the skies 11,000 feet I think is the minimum? You may have to play with the yoke settings a littl bit. Recalibrating may help you it is called a H.I.D. short for interactive device. You may have the "G" forces turned up without knowing it and also the amount of RAM and speed of your processor may play a part along with the power supply.

Well, I am sure that others may come on board and give advice too like CRJ, Greekman both are vewry good at this stuff.

I hope this helps some. You can also look through the forums here specific to FS9 there is a boatload of information here.

Pro Member Captain
Karlw Captain

here is two ideas I've had this problem before one check the autopilot is complletley disingaged or make sure the trim is set for takeoff

Hope that helps

Good luck

Oh and welcome to flyaway 🍻

Pro Member Chief Captain
RadarMan Chief Captain

I'll throw in another, unload some of the passengers and fuel so the aircraft is lighter.

A very poor video card can do that also.

Radar

Air-Head Guest

SORRY if this is really obvious, but have you set the Flaps? The takeoff (rotation) speed will be far higher with the flaps set to 0...

I think their supposed to be set to Flaps 10, (or was it 5) for take-off!
I think the actual rotation speed in a 747 is greater than 150knts anyway isnt it? An it wont shoot into the air like a fighter, the 747 is a seriously large piece of metal.....so it'd take a second or two from pull back to get a response...

You probably know all that, but hey you never knw!! 🙂

Guest

my pmdg 737ng rotates at about 128knots with flaps 5 and t/o trim setting.

Jamie4590 Guest

Something else you could try is removing the fs9.cfg file and when you restart fs9 it will create a new one. It contains all of your command assignments so if you want to keep them open the file and copy the command list over the new fs9.cfg command list.

In the folder options in your control panel make sure the option 'View all files and folders' then search for fs9.cfg. As Radar Man suggests though it could be a payload issue.

Pro Member Trainee
Aceman9 Trainee

Thanks for all the suggestions. Even the "obvious" ones. It's an obvious solution I'm hoping for.

Yeah, adjusting TRIM does help but then it causes the plane pitch up violently as soon as the nose wheel leaves the ground. The elevator TRIM should be neutral on take off anyway. As For AUTOPILOT, yes I've been through that drill already. FLAPS, check! FS9.CFG file, Check ! been there done that etc.

As for the FS9.1 UPDATE, for some mysterious reason, Microsoft have REMOVED the 9.1 Update page altogether !! Try finding it if you can !
I don't think that's where the problem lies anyway as my installation is already 9.1 from the original discs.

Again, I should emphasize that everything was functioning fine when this problem developed and I have not made any changes to my hardware setup. My system spec is 3.00 GHz Pentium, 1 Gbyte RAM, Radeon x600 graphics card with the latest drivers. Capable enough !

Also, this is not exculsively a take-off problem. The elevator controls feel sluggish in the air as well as on the ground. It's a global glitch that seems to affect all my loaded aircraft.

Still in the dark I'm afraid.

Pro Member Trainee
Aceman9 Trainee

RadarMan wrote:

I'll throw in another, unload some of the passengers

Radar

I'm not sure they'd appreciate that ! :->

Pro Member Chief Captain
Tailhook Chief Captain

Have you read this post:

https://forum.flyawaysimulation.com/forum/topic/26316/ch-yoke-problem/

Drivers can become corrupted - it's worth a try checking it out.

The update for fs9 is here:

https://flyawaysimulation.com/downloads/files/2795/flight-simulator-2004-update-v91/

Something else comes to mind - did you by any chance Save a flight and make it your Default flight at the same time 🤔 -- if you did, the saved settings might get carried over to the next flight.

Pro Member Chief Captain
CRJCapt Chief Captain

First, get a joy stick, any joy stick. The 747 won't fly at 150 knots, the rotation speed for default weight, with 10 degrees of flaps, is 177 KIAS. Check that you control sensitivity settings are default.

Edit: Make sure your sim rate is normal and not accidentally 1/2 and you have IAS selected, not TAS. Just a wild thought.



Last edited by CRJCapt on Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:22 pm, edited 2 times in total
Pro Member First Officer
Dan Young (dannyboy2005) First Officer

Let the pro answear this techinacal, brain ratteling question.

you need to go in fs9 to

Settings -> Sensitivities (Under Controls, Right hand side) -> And look to see if you have these settings same as i have (Default)

Pro Member First Officer
Ed Reagle (edr1073) First Officer

I have the same joy stick and not one problem in FS9 or FSX. It is a simple stick. I would say get rid of the yoke and go with the joystick also.

Aceman9,

Have you found resolution yet? I told you people here are good people some like to showw off a little but experience teaches us. I am really surprised that GreekMan hasn't chimmed in by now he is another guy that has a lot of knowledge. 🍻 🙂)

Pro Member Trainee
Aceman9 Trainee

dannyboy2005 wrote:

Let the pro answear this techinacal, brain ratteling question.

you need to go in fs9 to

Settings -> Sensitivities (Under Controls, Right hand side) -> And look to see if you have these settings same as i have (Default)

Sorry for the misunderstanding, I do NOT have a yoke or joystick. I was thinking VIRTUALLY when I said "yoke" but I did say in brackets afterwards that I actually use keyboard controls to fly.

Anyway, I checked the control sensitivities (yet again!)and everything is as it should be. Thanks for the screenshots.

Pro Member Trainee
Aceman9 Trainee

Tailhook wrote:

Have you read this post:

https://forum.flyawaysimulation.com/forum/topic/26316/ch-yoke-problem/

Drivers can become corrupted - it's worth a try checking it out.

The update for fs9 is here:

https://flyawaysimulation.com/downloads/files/2795/flight-simulator-2004-update-v91/

thanks. the page must've been temporarily down when I tried it before. Installed it. But No improvement I'm afraid.

Pro Member Chief Captain
Tailhook Chief Captain

Seeing that so far everything else has failed try this:

Make sure FS is NOT running.

Delete the Flight Simulator Files folder in My Documents.

Fire up FS and see what happens.

Pro Member Trainee
Aceman9 Trainee

edr1073 wrote:

Have you found resolution yet?

Niet !

I wonder if someone can indulge me in a little comparison test. It may be the only way to determine whether the problem is just in my head or if I'm having REAL problems.

do the following:

- Create a new flight with a default global freighways 747-400

- Go to Seattle tacoma international active runway (trying to maintain default settings throughout including airport and runway)

- Weather Theme: Fair weather

- Payload and Fuel: Default settings

-Control sensitivities: Default settings

-Choose Flaps 10

-Set elevators for MAXIMUM lift. I.E. Pull ALL the way back. (I realize this isn't standard take off procedure but it's better for benchmarking)-Do NOT adjust the trim. Keep it neutral

-Power up to 100% of N1 with the brakes on

-Go to spot plane view so you can have a good view of the undercarriage including the nose wheel.

-RELEASE BRAKES and watch the plane go down the runway. As soon as the Nose wheel lifts off the runway PAUSE the flight and NOTE DOWN YOUR SPEED.

-Resume take off and as soon as the last wheel of the undercarriage leaves the tarmac. i.e. the plane is airborne. NOTE DOWN YOUR SPEED AGAIN.

My own test results:

Nose wheel takes off at 175 Knots
Plane leaves tarmac at 200 Knots

At this point you can tell me to go to hell cause there aren't enough hours in the day for this silly nonsense. But I hope you wont. 😂

In any case, I'm very grateful for your contributions so far.

Pro Member Trainee
Aceman9 Trainee

Tailhook wrote:

Seeing that so far everything else has failed try this:

Make sure FS is NOT running.

Delete the Flight Simulator Files folder in My Documents.

Fire up FS and see what happens.

Thanks. tried all this before and tried it again just now. Didn't help!

Pro Member Chief Captain
Tailhook Chief Captain

Aceman9 wrote:

As For AUTOPILOT, yes I've been through that drill already.

Sorry to bring this up again, but reading it out of context especially this is a bit ambiguous.

Is the AP actually engaged or disengaged?

Pro Member Chief Captain
CRJCapt Chief Captain

My results were approximately the same for the 747 takeoff at KSEA.

Pro Member Trainee
Aceman9 Trainee

Tailhook wrote:

Aceman9 wrote:

As For AUTOPILOT, yes I've been through that drill already.

Sorry to bring this up again, but reading it out of context especially this is a bit ambiguous.

Is the AP actually engaged or disengaged?

The AP is Disengaged.

Which reminds me.....this may be unrelated but when I engage the 747 AutoPilot by clicking on the CMD switch in midflight the plane goes into instant Altitude and heading hold...even if I don't have altitude and heading selected !

I don't ever remember that happening before ! I used to fly with the AP switch on and still have manual flight controls.

Pro Member Chief Captain
Tailhook Chief Captain

Aceman9 wrote:

I don't ever remember that happening before ! I used to fly with the AP switch on and still have manual flight controls.

Did you have the Flight Director Switch in the ON position in those instances?

Air-Head Guest

I would say the simulation is actually simulating a 747-400 fully laden quite well....

Nose wheel would raise first, an seems normal at 175 kts, and the body raising up some seconds later when the airplane is at 200 kts...

Is that not normal??? IMO I think it is.. my default 747 is damm close if not indentical...

Want to test your setup, well take up the Extra30S, thats a damm twitchy thing.... The 747 is sluggish, because it is sluggish in real life..

Let us know how it "feels" with the Extra30S..

Air-Head Guest

Idea !!!!

Actually you say maximum elevators! Could that be the key to the problem, by trying to pitch up too much, too soon.

I think the resulting drag, would prevent a smooth lift off...

Maybe straw clutching..... but everything else you seem to have checked out.

Pro Member Trainee
Aceman9 Trainee

Tailhook wrote:

Aceman9 wrote:

I don't ever remember that happening before ! I used to fly with the AP switch on and still have manual flight controls.

Did you have the Flight Director Switch in the ON position in those instances?

I've tried it in both positions with the same result. As soon as I turn AP on the plane HOLDS whatever direction or altitude I'm at. This only happens with the 747.

Pro Member Trainee
Aceman9 Trainee

Air-Head wrote:

Idea !!!!

Actually you say maximum elevators! Could that be the key to the problem, by trying to pitch up too much, too soon.

I think the resulting drag, would prevent a smooth lift off...

Maybe straw clutching..... but everything else you seem to have checked out.

Like I said, I wouldn't do that for a normal takeff. Was trying to conduct a test of sorts.

Thanks to everyone who reported back on my "comparison Test". If you used the elevators the way I said then perhaps I don't have a problem? I don't know...the planes aren't behaving like they used to.

And now I have the glitch with the 747 Autopilot that I mentioned in my previous post. I switch on AP and I lose all manual controls. Can't be right , surely.

Pro Member First Officer
Dan Young (dannyboy2005) First Officer

Hmmm. Could it be anything to do with "Keyboard Settings" in Control Pannel? The repeat Rate?

Pro Member Chief Captain
Tailhook Chief Captain

Do you still have the default panel in your 747 - no tweaks of any kind, no overwritten gauges?

Pro Member Trainee
Aceman9 Trainee

Tailhook wrote:

Do you still have the default panel in your 747 - no tweaks of any kind, no overwritten gauges?

Yes it's all default. Even reinstalled FS again last night with the same result.
Crazy, huh?

Pro Member Trainee
Aceman9 Trainee

dannyboy2005 wrote:

Hmmm. Could it be anything to do with "Keyboard Settings" in Control Pannel? The repeat Rate?

repeat rate is set to fast.

Air-Head Guest

A/P takes manual control away, ummm its supposed too isnt it?

Do you mean regardless of what altitude you select, the A/P keeps you steady an level, and also will not turn the plane to the course you select?..

If yes, that is a strange one!!

Pro Member Trainee
Aceman9 Trainee

Air-Head wrote:

A/P takes manual control away, ummm its supposed too isnt it?

Do you mean regardless of what altitude you select, the A/P keeps you steady an level, and also will not turn the plane to the course you select?..

If yes, that is a strange one!!

No, I do NOT have either Heading or Altitude selected.

I'm talking about flying with ONLY the AP master switch turned on. All other AP switches are OFF.

I should still be able to fly the plane manually but I can't.

Air-Head Guest

Got to admit never have tried that, I just normally turn it off altogether if I need neither heading hold, or altitude hold....

But yes, I imagine it should be controllable under those circumstances..

A really strange one, please let me know if you resolve it....

Pro Member Trainee
Aceman9 Trainee

Air-Head wrote:

Got to admit never have tried that, I just normally turn it off altogether if I need neither heading hold, or altitude hold....

But yes, I imagine it should be controllable under those circumstances..

A really strange one, please let me know if you resolve it....

No..still haven't resolved the AP problem.

And the original issue which prompted me to start this thread is unreseloved also.

It's like I'm flying through treacle at times. controls simply don't respond properly. Have done several reinstalls, Driver upgrades, downgrades, sidewaysgrades....nothing doing. It's the most frustrating thing I@ve ever experienced and despite all the good advice on these boards..nobody seems to know exactly what's up. Starting to go cold on FS altogehter.

Only thing I haven't tried yet is to change my keyboard and I'll do that tomorrow.

thansk for your input.

thanks even. (yup, keyboard ! 🙂)

Pro Member Chief Captain
Tailhook Chief Captain

Aceman9 wrote:

No, I do NOT have either Heading or Altitude selected.

I'm talking about flying with ONLY the AP master switch turned on. All other AP switches are OFF.

I should still be able to fly the plane manually but I can't.

You sure about that? I don't understand why you need the AP masterswitch ON if you're not needing it. Is this standard procedure?
If your answer is YES -- I'll go back to school.

Air-head Guest

Ok tried it over the weekend, my AP on the Cessna (this was) does indeed lock all controls, if I have nothing selected.

So must be a function, but I dont have a real world plane to try it on..
It might be a glitch, or it might be true to life.

Either way though, as above has said, if AP is not being used for anything, it shouldnt be on. So hit Z an thats one less problem. 😉

The other issue, did you try the controls on the EXTRA 30S, if it still feels like flying in treacle with that feisty thing, then you really have got an issue.....

Let us know....(pleasse)

Guest

Aceman9 wrote:

edr1073 wrote:

Have you found resolution yet?

Niet !

I wonder if someone can indulge me in a little comparison test. It may be the only way to determine whether the problem is just in my head or if I'm having REAL problems.

do the following:

- Create a new flight with a default global freighways 747-400

- Go to Seattle tacoma international active runway (trying to maintain default settings throughout including airport and runway)

- Weather Theme: Fair weather

- Payload and Fuel: Default settings

-Control sensitivities: Default settings

-Choose Flaps 10

-Set elevators for MAXIMUM lift. I.E. Pull ALL the way back. (I realize this isn't standard take off procedure but it's better for benchmarking)-Do NOT adjust the trim. Keep it neutral

-Power up to 100% of N1 with the brakes on

-Go to spot plane view so you can have a good view of the undercarriage including the nose wheel.

-RELEASE BRAKES and watch the plane go down the runway. As soon as the Nose wheel lifts off the runway PAUSE the flight and NOTE DOWN YOUR SPEED.

-Resume take off and as soon as the last wheel of the undercarriage leaves the tarmac. i.e. the plane is airborne. NOTE DOWN YOUR SPEED AGAIN.

My own test results:

Nose wheel takes off at 175 Knots
Plane leaves tarmac at 200 Knots

At this point you can tell me to go to hell cause there aren't enough hours in the day for this silly nonsense. But I hope you wont. 😂

In any case, I'm very grateful for your contributions so far.

I just did this comparison flight and found that my required speeds are exactly the same as yours. Seems about right to me and there was lots of runway left.

Pro Member Trainee
Aceman9 Trainee

Anonymous wrote:

I just did this comparison flight and found that my required speeds are exactly the same as yours. Seems about right to me and there was lots of runway left.

Thanks for the results. Good of you to do that.

Pro Member Trainee
Aceman9 Trainee

Air-head wrote:

Ok tried it over the weekend, my AP on the Cessna (this was) does indeed lock all controls, if I have nothing selected.

So must be a function, but I dont have a real world plane to try it on..
It might be a glitch, or it might be true to life.

Either way though, as above has said, if AP is not being used for anything, it shouldnt be on. So hit Z an thats one less problem. 😉

The other issue, did you try the controls on the EXTRA 30S, if it still feels like flying in treacle with that feisty thing, then you really have got an issue.....

Let us know....(pleasse)

That's so odd..I don't remember the AP ever behaving like that before. I feel like I've entered an episode of the twilight zone .
Wacko

As for flight testing with the aerobatics plane..yeah.. I tried that and it didn't seem too bad.

I wish I could say it was all in my head but there are other niggly problems that have developed - like the Autothrottle Arm switch refusing to come on - but it's all kind of academic now cause on my latest attempt at reinstalling FS, the application now refuses to run !! Starts to load, gets to the intro screen and then gives up...no error messages or anything..just shuts down !!

What is up with that? I think I'm just cursed or something.

Wall Bashing

Pro Member Chief Captain
Tailhook Chief Captain

That could be a GFX Driver issue. Despite the fact that apparently this hasn't happened before -- all good things must come to an end - drivers can become corrupted.

If you can load fs9 (and fly) in Safe Mode: NOTE - fs9 Safe Mode, NOT Windows Safe Mode, that means you've got a driver issue.



Last edited by Tailhook on Sat Mar 31, 2007 1:03 am, edited 1 time in total
Pro Member Trainee
Aceman9 Trainee

Tailhook wrote:

That could be a GFX Driver issue. Desoite the fact that apparently this hasn't happened before -- all good things must come to an end - drivers can become corrupted.

If you can load fs9 (and fly) in Safe Mode: NOTE - fs9 Safe Mode, NOT Windows Safe Mode, that means you've got a driver issue.

Wont start in safe mode either and I've gone through all the troubleshooter steps on the Microsoft website.

I'm now dangerously close to packing it all in and taking up quilting for a hobby ! Pity, I was in the middle of a new FS movie project.

What's "GFX" anyway?

Pro Member Chief Captain
Tailhook Chief Captain

OMG, no... not you, leave the quilts alone! I am often soooo tempted to suggest knitting to those who can't or won't read or write - let alone focus for more than a second.

There's hope for you yet 😀

GFX = Graphics ... just like Effects are often abbreviated to FX --- of course not to be confused with GFX or FSX... crystal clear, right?

Then of course there is VC - which can mean both Virtual Cabin or 3D Cockpit... ooorr Virtual Cabin (where the Hosties hang out).
🍻

Pro Member Chief Captain
Tailhook Chief Captain

Almost forgot:

Aceman9 wrote:

.. cause on my latest attempt at reinstalling FS..

Now you did mention that: "I've gone through all the troubleshooter steps on the Microsoft website." I trust you looked at the pertinent troubleshooter steps at the pertinent Microsoft page -- because there are oh so many.
I can't find the page ATM (buried somewhere in my archives) but you are aware that often a successful install is only possible after a successful, correct, proper uninstall.

So what are we looking at? I think uninstalling payware add-ons one by one would be the first step. Did you use the No CD-crack? I think that has to go next. Was your most recent installation patched ie v9.1? I think the patch has to be uninstalled first. Then fs9 has to be uninstalled.
To make sure that I'm gonna start from a clean slate, I would go into the Program Files Folder (if this is the location where fs9 was installed) and delete all the leftovers - there will be astonishingly plenty. Again, I'd delete the Flight Simulator Files folder in My Documents.
The stuff that gets deleted usually ends up in the Recycle Bin - I would empty that too, at least get rid of everything connected with fs9 that's in the Bin.

To be extra thorough, I'd do a search "All files and folders" for anything with fs2004 or fs9 in the name.

Next, probably not essential, but I would defrag. Do a few other scans - virus, spyware etc., prepare so to speak.

Then the big moment - starting the new installation. Now here's the bit that always throws me and I can never remember the options and which one to choose unless I see it in front of me. Installation Options, I think there are three different ones, it's worth to ponder on this before clicking.

After the hopefully successful installation, I wouldn't add ANYTHING else yet, not even the patch/update - no 3rd party add-ons. Just keep it clean and test it. If it's allright, the next step is the patch to turn it from v9 back into v9.1. Next the NO CD patch if you're using it. Testing again.

Now the add-ons: First the payware only one at a time in date of release order and testing in between each individual add-on install.
After all of the payware add-ons have been installed, I would give it a few days of simming just to make sure everything is smooth. Oh yeah, let's not forget to have one of the more recent FSUIPC.DLL in the Modules folder.

Can't think of anything else ATM and am already wondering what I forgot.

It's quite feasable that you did everything in the right order... more than once. If despite that you're experiencing problems I would guess that something in your OS is haywire and/or the Registry has turned itself into scrambled eggs. What to do? Best to troubleshoot one step at a time.

The last resort, if you have the OS disk would be a reformat. What d'ya think?

Air-Head Guest

I really hope you get it working soon!! Its a real mystery...

Pro Member Trainee
Aceman9 Trainee

Tailhook wrote:

OMG, no... not you, leave the quilts alone!
🍻

Can't help myself....quilting is fun and rewarding !!

Have tried almost all the fixes you've suggested to no avail but I'm still on the case. Gonna have another bash at it next week. I'll report back if and when I make any progress.

Cheers for now

Pro Member Trainee
Aceman9 Trainee

Air-Head wrote:

I really hope you get it working soon!! Its a real mystery...

you and me both. But mostly me !

Pro Member Trainee
Aceman9 Trainee

As a last resort I contacted MS phone support and after hours of being shoved from pillar to post , numerous disconnections and much confusion (I was even put through to some guy who asked me for my credit card details!!) I finally managed to stay on the line long enough for someone to address my issues.

Unfortunately he couldn't actually solve the problem but a tech called me back a couple of days later and we finally managed to crack it. As far as I could tell the only thing we did differently that I hadn't tried before was to install the FS application to a different folder. The mind boggles !

thanks again to everyone who contributed to this thread. 🍻

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