Imperfect Landings

nrkazmi Guest

My question may sound ignorant to lot of ace experts over here, but this problem has baffled me for days. The Question is that say I am flyng from Airport A to Airport B, without an ILS landing system. Somewhere near the destination airport, I hit a NDB which is not directly in front of the runway but rather at an acute angle to the runway end. My FS 2004 flight planner draws a direct line from the NDB to the runway end, and if I exactly follow that line, my plane ends on the runway from a sideway angle and therefore after touching the runway for a breif 2 seconds goes to the grass lawns on the sides. How can I correct myself in such situations so that after touching the NDB I can maneouvre myself in such a way that I am perfectly aligned with the runway at least for the last 3-4 miles. I have tried manually by going out and then turning but most of the time I end up landing parallel to runways on the grass. I dont rely on ATC because FS 2004 is a heavily bugged piece of software which in such cases just only says, xxxx, cleared to land on runway 17, Acknowledge and doesnt give me any vectors or any help.

Can you guys help me out how to cope with such tricky scenarious.

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Pro Member Chief Captain
Alex (Fire_Emblem_Master) Chief Captain

I dont rely on ATC because FS 2004 is a heavily bugged piece of software which in such cases just only says, xxxx, cleared to land on runway 17, Acknowledge and doesnt give me any vectors or any help.

If you think it's so bugged, why the heck do you use it?

I should slap you for that! ATC in FS04 is very accurate, the problem is coming from inexperience with how it works. If you want ATC to vector you farther than just lining you up for a ILS landing, (which in this case, you're flying into a airport that doesnt have ils) you have to request a different type of landing. I always use ATC, and i haven't crashed since last december. Yes, i have the realism set as high as it goes too.

Ok, so you're following the NDB, It doesn't matter how the NDB is placed, that has no bearing on anything, it's where you are flying from, as well as your direction in relation to where the NDB is as well as where the runway is. Assuming you want to land on runway 36, and are coming from the north, you would either call in ATC and request a visual approach, or you would enter a traffic pattern to cope with it.

The below diagram should help, I forgot to draw the traffic pattern, but you just turn away from the runway a bit and run parallel, then, afer a couple miles, turn right, then right again so you'll be facing the runway

See, FS isn't bugged, it's that you don't know how to use ATC well'll come after a while

PH Guest

Not ignorant at fact a very good question as the NDB does not get much mention on here mainly due to the fact that outside of the UK the NDB is not used....much! Main reason is it is difficult to use and not that reliable.
I gather that the NDB you are using is on the field? Easiest thing to do is fly about a 5-7 mile arc so that you have a similar distance on final approach in order to stabilize get the gear down etc rather than make a mad dive. This only works if the DME is used or rather indicated for the field in question. Fly towards the NDB until about 7DME away then turn so that the ADF indicated that the NDB is about 90 degrees to your track, (maintain 7d until turning inbound) keep it this way until it is near to the runway QDM ie if it is runway 32 then it will be about 322 degrees so at 310 indicated on the ADF start a slow turn pushing or pulling the needle to the desired I/B course. If the desired course is to the right of the needle fly a heading left of the needle to "push it" and vice versa. Very difficult to explain in words! But if you have an understanding of the NDB and how to read the ADF/RMI then you may understand.

Pro Member First Officer
leadfoot First Officer

If you are doing an ILS approach, the NDB is almost never a part of the picture when setting up for a landing The only exception being when the NDB is near an app fix.

PH Guest

I thought he was trying to do an NDB approach?? or self position using the NDB why is it the ILS is the only thing people want to talk makes life to easy!! 😉

nrkazmi Guest

Dear FEM
You have explained pretty much with the help of the diagram and thats what I try to do exactly but as I said earlier, most of the time I end up landing parallel to the runway. As far as Fs 2004 ATC is concerned, I again stick to my words that as far it goes with me, I found it to be heavily bugged, not only because of the current problem but because of other scenarios too, which the space limitation doesnt allow me to discuss because I will be taking the discussion away from the current topic. May be its because of my ignorance but really even flying the VFR approach at least I never came across complete ATC help. I t gives me certain limited choices numbered, 1,2,3... on the screen with voice background, but thats all with it. Again I dont know how to make much of the ATC beyond this, because they dont give options me for that.

Anyhow I think, I have to practice heavily with visual approaches and making own subjective assesments of runway ends rather than getting only a plain clearence from ATC to land. Anoher question arising out of this, is there any add-on piece of ATC realted software for FS 2004, which can augment and improve the performance of the inbuilt FS 2004 ATC.

Pro Member Chief Captain
RadarMan Chief Captain
Pro Member Chief Captain
Alex (Fire_Emblem_Master) Chief Captain

It's POSSIBLE, however unlikely that you could have a problem with the installation of the program. I truly doubt it, but stranger things have happened. The other thing you can do is fly the full traffic pattern around the target airport, this allows you to get your bearings on where you are, in relation to the airport.

Pretty much, fly toward the airport, and wherever you come in from, turn in right to the airport, and fly a retangular pattern untill you are flying parallel with the runway you want...Then, when you get to the end of the runway, (you'll be off about a half mile, flying parallel at around 1,000 feet) turn. If you can figure out what i just said 😳 You'll be flying parallel to the runway threshold, or near it. Turn, and land.

This would require a video to explain well though 😞

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