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I'm good with ILS approaches but I totally suck at VISUAL...

Pro Member First Officer
Heyjoojoo First Officer

VISUAL approaches come up every now and then when ATC assigns me a visual approach. I totally freak out and can't quite make the approach.

Can someone point me to tutorials for Visual Approaches of 737s or Airbuses?
Any other suggestions appreciated...

Pro Member Chief Captain
Karlw Chief Captain

Good luck visual is quite easy it's follows a simple left or right rectangle around the landing runway.

Pro Member Captain
Taylor (Flyboy92) Captain

A couple of steps to help ease a visual approach in a 737/A320/Or Whatever!

1.) Use the GPS to help keep yourself aligned.
2.) Make Small adjustments after your established
3.) Keep the PAPI as close to 2 white 2 red as often as you can.

In order to help you more, I need to know exactly what problems you have on the visual approach?

Speed Management? Steadiness? Alignment?

Flyboy92

Pro Member First Officer
Hongming Zheng (jianqing) First Officer

^I think thats what I was about to say!!!!!^ ^Agreed^

with The GPS you can line up, with the PAPI you can be not too high or to low!!!!!!

And small ajustments!

Pro Member Chief Captain
Jonathan (99jolegg) Chief Captain

Keep practising - that's the easiest way to learn.

Once you have the airfield in sight, keep the visual scan going; check airspeed (make sure you have a target airspeed), check aspect (i.e. the look of the profile you are on, are you too high or too low looking at the runway) and check you're on the centreline (use small amounts of coordinated rudder / aileron and wait for inertia to settle before making another move).

If you let one of these things lapse, you'll have a harder time recovering it. Scan your instruments and include the picture out the window as your primary source of information.

A few tips:
- Your rate of descent should be around 750fpm; adjust that accordingly once you see what it gets
- Anticipate everything - if you look at your VSI and it says -1000fpm, you know that if you were on the right profile to start with, you will soon be low
- Add flap at the correct stages
- Keep speed fairly low, start the approach at 180 KIAS, drop to 160 KIAS to 5-6nm from the airport (use GPS for the distance)
- Get gear down going through 2000ft
- Make small and constant movements on the controls
- If it helps, engage the autopilot just with speed hold (autothrottle) so you can concentrate fully on maintaining the profile whilst listening to the power changes required to keep your target airspeed

Hope that helps.

Pro Member First Officer
Heyjoojoo First Officer

Well, I believe I'm struggling with "all the above". I'm so used to using ILS and allowing ATC to align me that I'm not too skilled at using the indicators to align me.

I need to watch the PFD and the ND better.

Pro Member Captain
Nick (truckernick) Captain

Assuming your familiar with traffic patterns and such, just follow them until you are lined up with the runway and what-not, and then on the stay on the glide slope (assuming you know that) and just follow your approach while using the PAPI or VASI lights (whichever is on the runway) and continue to final to land.
Once again this is assuming you know the basics here.

And of course doing everything else required to land with all of this.

Pro Member First Officer
Heyjoojoo First Officer

I'm experienced in Glidescope checking and it took some time before I was able to do that. What seems to happen is that I follow all instructions of ATC and then somehow end up too high and not able to land at the destination. I think what happens is that I'm so used to allowing ATC, localizer, and GS to land me, I don't worry about anything else. I'll practice doing some quick landings. Should I just take off from lets say KSFO and then turn back around and attempt to land? I've never done that; I usually do short hops KLAS to KLAX and practice that way which usually takes about 45 minutes.

I'm using the default 737-800 aircraft for this.

Also, I know how to manually turn on reverse thrusters and raise speedbrakes (spoilers) but jow do I have them activate automatically? I thought there was a way to do this so that they come on automatically upon landing.

- Kareem

Pro Member First Officer
lionlicker First Officer

I am in the habit of using the following equation as I approach:

A = height above the threshold in feet
B = distance to threshold in nautical miles
C = ground speed (shown on GPS or DME instrument)

fpm = [(A/B)/60]*C

set your fpm at the equated fpm ( it takes 5 seconds to tab it out on a calculator) and you will glideslope straight towards the threshold.

I repeatedly go through this proceedure as i approach because it changes all the time whilst your on approach.

PS Smile
glideslope "angle" can be expressed as ft/Nm (feet per nautical mile) ... - which is commonly 300 for most approaches. ft/Nm = A/B



Last edited by lionlicker on Fri Dec 04, 2009 8:29 am, edited 1 time in total
Pro Member First Officer
Heyjoojoo First Officer

I guess I need a step by step instruction on what to do if I'm using ATC and if I'm not.

Pro Member First Officer
lionlicker First Officer

Here are some example steps for the 737. Each scenario is different so this example assumes an airport of elevation 1500 feet. You are in free flight at 36000 feet cruise - about 170 Nm out from your destination airport in 16X time accelaration.

1) Break out of time compression into normal time. Establish flight following with ATC. Unless you know in advance which runway approach to take ...- head straight towards the dest' airport.

2) Given your airport elevation and 737 characteristics you could jot down a final approach chart something like given below under point 9)

3) Save your flight at this stage Alt[F][S]. Use autopilot and auto throttle untill the last minute of the approach.

4) Considering wind influence, start decsent at about 130 Nm out. Descend at about 340 ft/Nm. 340/60=5.67. .. so fpm= 5.67 X ground speed. So if your ground speed is 450 knots then set you fpm descent to 2500.
A safe descent IAS is 280.. so set auto throttle to 280. As you descend, keep an eye on you ground speed (GPS) and keep adjusting your fpm accordingly. fpm=5.67 X GS
Set auto pilot ALT to 8100 (for level off)
5) As you pass 18000 feet, adjust your Altimeter barometer from 29.92 to the local pressure. (Alt[W][W]>>User Weather.. read the pressure .. then [Cancel ]to back out of there.)

6) As you pass 12000 feet, set auto throttle to 250 kn

7) Level of at 8100 feet and you should be entering the 30 Nm proximity to your dest' airport. ATC - contact tower and request full stop. Turn and proceed to a point at about 25 Nm out to line up for the final.

Cool As you near the final turn point, slow to 190 IAS, gear down, 1 degree flaps, landing lights on, auto brakes set to 2, and bell the seat belts fastened.

9) Turn on to final at 8100 feet and line up at about 25 Nm out. Follow your tailor made chart on final. On final, average fpm can be calculated a 5 X Ground speed.

IAS--------190----180----170----160----150----140----130------120-----120
FLAPS------1-------2-------5------10-----15------25-------30------40-----LAND
DIST-------22-----19-----16------13------11------8--------5--------2--------0
ALT------8100---7200--6300---5400---4800---3900----3000----2100---1500

Pro Member Captain
Duncan (Razgr1z912) Captain

lionlicker wrote:

Here are some example steps for the 737. Each scenario is different so this example assumes an airport of elevation 1500 feet. You are in free flight at 36000 feet cruise - about 170 Nm out from your destination airport in 16X time accelaration.

1) Break out of time compression into normal time. Establish flight following with ATC. Unless you know in advance which runway approach to take ...- head straight towards the dest' airport.

2) Given your airport elevation and 737 characteristics you could jot down a final approach chart something like given below under point 9)

3) Save your flight at this stage Alt[F][S]. Use autopilot and auto throttle untill the last minute of the approach.

4) Considering wind influence, start decsent at about 130 Nm out. Descend at about 340 ft/Nm. 340/60=5.67. .. so fpm= 5.67 X ground speed. So if your ground speed is 450 knots then set you fpm descent to 2500.
A safe descent IAS is 280.. so set auto throttle to 280. As you descend, keep an eye on you ground speed (GPS) and keep adjusting your fpm accordingly. fpm=5.67 X GS
Set auto pilot ALT to 8100 (for level off)
5) As you pass 18000 feet, adjust your Altimeter barometer from 29.92 to the local pressure. (Alt[W][W]>>User Weather.. read the pressure .. then [Cancel ]to back out of there.)

6) As you pass 12000 feet, set auto throttle to 250 kn

7) Level of at 8100 feet and you should be entering the 30 Nm proximity to your dest' airport. ATC - contact tower and request full stop. Turn and proceed to a point at about 25 Nm out to line up for the final.

Cool As you near the final turn point, slow to 190 IAS, gear down, 1 degree flaps, landing lights on, auto brakes set to 2, and bell the seat belts fastened.

9) Turn on to final at 8100 feet and line up at about 25 Nm out. Follow your tailor made chart on final. On final, average fpm can be calculated a 5 X Ground speed.

IAS--------190----180----170----160----150----140----130------120-----120
FLAPS------1-------2-------5------10-----15------25-------30------40-----LAND
DIST-------22-----19-----16------13------11------8--------5--------2--------0
ALT------8100---7200--6300---5400---4800---3900----3000----2100---1500

I like how you bring a math point of view to the sim. Can you tell me some formulas (sorry to hi-jack)? For example, ETA to destination? Anything thats pretty much useful.

Pro Member First Officer
lionlicker First Officer

How to use maths in flight sim? .... Sure, I would be delighted to share some maths applications to flight sim, .. but give me some time, and I will start a new thread when I get organised.

Pro Member First Officer
Heyjoojoo First Officer

lionlicker wrote:

Here are some example steps for the 737. Each scenario is different so this example assumes an airport of elevation 1500 feet. You are in free flight at 36000 feet cruise - about 170 Nm out from your destination airport in 16X time accelaration.

1) Break out of time compression into normal time. Establish flight following with ATC. Unless you know in advance which runway approach to take ...- head straight towards the dest' airport.

2) Given your airport elevation and 737 characteristics you could jot down a final approach chart something like given below under point 9)

3) Save your flight at this stage Alt[F][S]. Use autopilot and auto throttle untill the last minute of the approach.

4) Considering wind influence, start decsent at about 130 Nm out. Descend at about 340 ft/Nm. 340/60=5.67. .. so fpm= 5.67 X ground speed. So if your ground speed is 450 knots then set you fpm descent to 2500.
A safe descent IAS is 280.. so set auto throttle to 280. As you descend, keep an eye on you ground speed (GPS) and keep adjusting your fpm accordingly. fpm=5.67 X GS
Set auto pilot ALT to 8100 (for level off)
5) As you pass 18000 feet, adjust your Altimeter barometer from 29.92 to the local pressure. (Alt[W][W]>>User Weather.. read the pressure .. then [Cancel ]to back out of there.)

6) As you pass 12000 feet, set auto throttle to 250 kn

7) Level of at 8100 feet and you should be entering the 30 Nm proximity to your dest' airport. ATC - contact tower and request full stop. Turn and proceed to a point at about 25 Nm out to line up for the final.

Cool As you near the final turn point, slow to 190 IAS, gear down, 1 degree flaps, landing lights on, auto brakes set to 2, and bell the seat belts fastened.

9) Turn on to final at 8100 feet and line up at about 25 Nm out. Follow your tailor made chart on final. On final, average fpm can be calculated a 5 X Ground speed.

IAS--------190----180----170----160----150----140----130------120-----120
FLAPS------1-------2-------5------10-----15------25-------30------40-----LAND
DIST-------22-----19-----16------13------11------8--------5--------2--------0
ALT------8100---7200--6300---5400---4800---3900----3000----2100---1500

Oooh, thanks. This looks good. Thanks lionlicker. I shall print and give it a shot. I may have questions later though.

Pro Member Captain
Duncan (Razgr1z912) Captain

lionlicker wrote:

How to use maths in flight sim? .... Sure, I would be delighted to share some maths applications to flight sim, .. but give me some time, and I will start a new thread when I get organised.

I just want to see some other formulas. I know how to use them.

Pro Member First Officer
Heyjoojoo First Officer

Flyboy92 wrote:

A couple of steps to help ease a visual approach in a 737/A320/Or Whatever!

1.) Use the GPS to help keep yourself aligned.
2.) Make Small adjustments after your established
3.) Keep the PAPI as close to 2 white 2 red as often as you can.

In order to help you more, I need to know exactly what problems you have on the visual approach?

Speed Management? Steadiness? Alignment?

Flyboy92

In ILS approaches, I'm very familiar with where I need to be since the ATC guides me and then I hit the localizer and glidescope. But with Visual Approach, I never can figure out what to do as I get closer to the airport. The ATC guides me nearby but do they align me with the runway? What if the ATC is unavailable, then I how do I line up with the runway?

I usually end up restarting the mission when the ATC tells me to expect vectors for Visual Approach. I don't like doing this but...
I'm not familar with using the GPS on approaches. I'll need to learn the GPS method.

Kareem

Pro Member First Officer
Heyjoojoo First Officer

Karlw wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f12Ql8GvrRI

Good luck visual is quite easy it's follows a simple left or right rectangle around the landing runway.

Not a tutorial for Visual Approach.

Pro Member Trainee
gregos Trainee

I would love to learn how to play FSX online with somebody. I am not an actual pilot, but Ive been flying sims for years. Thought it would be fun to fly with someone, but I have no idea how it works. Whether or not you can fly in two seperate planes together?

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