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Instrument Checkride: Confused

The Anonymous Guest Guest

Hello!

For the instrument rating checkride, i was at an VOR approach then she told me to execute missed apch. So i do, i climb to 2100' and pass Parkk at 5.8 nm. The tells me turn left, climb to 3000 then enter holding at 140 degree course. Now if i refer to the information that tells me about the flight it also says turn left and pass the SEA station at any heading. I dont understand, what does turn left mean?????? turn left 10 degree 180 degrees, 360 degrees?. Do i have to turn to intercept the 339 course again(or since its opposite the 159 degree course).
Could anyone help me, please???

Pro Member Chief Captain
Alex (Fire_Emblem_Master) Chief Captain

There should be a chart that comes with the lesson that you need to printout/review, it details missed approach details and shows where the VOR is...If i remember correctly at least

Guest

Yup i have all the charts and everything printed out, I stil dont understand what turn left means and how do i intercept the SEA vor again by turning left?

Pro Member Chief Captain
Alex (Fire_Emblem_Master) Chief Captain

Sorry bud, I can't remember for the life of me what to do in that one...It's been at least a year since i completed it, maybe radarman or someone else knows...i'm rusty with VOR navigation.

Guest

Ok, well hopefully someone will come that can help me

DonWood Guest

Please let me know what approach you are trying to execute and I'll get it out and review the procedure to see if I can help.

Guest Ed Guest

You really should search on "IFR Checkride" both here and in the FS2002 forum-- there are some pretty lengthy discussions about it. I remember that there were discrepancies between what Rod says to do in the briefing and what the tester tells you to do in the checkride.

Besides the question you ask about how to enter the holding pattern, there has been some discussion about a bug that makes it nearly impossible to pass-- something about the timing of when you enter the pattern, after crossing the KSEA VOR-- don't remember the details.

Personally, I never did pass that checkride. I can fly IFR, and I can do holding patterns, and I can do ILS approaches (at least in the sim), but I never could pass that darned checkride. After trying for weeks, I finally said "To heck with it" (only I didn't say "heck") and got on with the fun of flying.

Ed

Guest

Ok, i got a link to a website from an earlier post

"Tune your NAV1 radio to SEA VOR 116.8", open your radio stack and set: NAV1-116.8, NAV1stdby-110.9, NAV2-109.6, ADF- 224
The guys says this in a statement when we first tune the radios at the very beginning. I can understand why tune all that but i dont understand what the ADF does. 224 seems to be the DONDO marker which is 4.3 nm from the SEA VOR. anyone know?

Pro Member First Officer
PH First Officer

Not sure about giving the right answer here as I am not familiar with the lesson. Firstly you should tune "DONDO" as there is no point in having nothing tuned on the ADF. If all else fails you can track to the NDB and hold there.
Turn left to me means-turn to intercept an inbound course direct to the VOR. Once passing over the VOR you begin the holding pattern turning onto the OB heading (140*or recipricol) I think you quoted. I will try it sometime!

Guest

So yea, all i found the ADF does when you tune it for DONDO/NDB is make it so it tells you when you pass the spot. I mean FS doesnt exactly mention ADF even in groundschool. But yea i have made progress int he checkride. Im almost past holding. Its just so hard keeping that Censored requirments for such a long period of time, i make the littlest alitude change while im trying to track the VOR and BAM that Censored fails me

DonWood Guest

I don't know what "the littlest altitude change" means but the real altitude and heading limits on the real instrument checkride are quite severe-if I recall correctly, plus or minus 100 feet from assigned altitude and plus or minus 2 needle widths on approach. The whole idea of instrument flying is flying precisely-otherwise, you could run into a rock-filled cloud.

When I got my instrument rating, back in the dark ages, most candidates already had a commercial license. I think that was better then trying to get an instrument rating as a relatively inexpereinced private pilot. Learning instrument flight is tough enough without having to spend a lot of time thinking about flying the plane. The commercial maneuvers give a pilot the training and experience to be able to fly much more precisely.

The ADF can (and should) be used for more than determining when you have passed it. Aside from flying ADF approaches, of which there a very few any more, the ADF, if it defines a point on the approach, is quite useful for anticipating turns. The arrow points to the ADF station so you can use it to determine when you are getting close to the turning point for the final approach course. They can also be handy for enroute navigation when there is not a suitably situated VOR and you do not have GPS, which many small airplanes do not yet have.

Guest Ed Guest

With all due respect to all the real-world pilots who have contributed to this discussion (and you are due a lot of respect), real-world flying ability doesn't have that much to do with passing this IFR checkride in FS09. There are known bugs.

If you fly the course you are told to fly by the tester, you won't pass directly over DONDO-- if you do, you will fail for being off course. If you follow the instructions for entering the holding pattern, you will fail for not entering correctly because the well-known timing bug will fail you. If you keep within the altitude limits described in the pre-flight briefing but fly below the specified altitude at the various checkpoints (even though you're within the limits), you will fail. If you make the procedure turn to land at Boeing field as instructed, you will exceed the 10 nm limit on the approach plate-- you have to cheat a little on that turn.

That's why I suggested doing a search-- there are step-by-step instructions out there that will get you by the bugs. And that's why I never completed the checkride-- it's not about precision flying, it's about knowing the bugs in the program and avoiding them. I flew it several times on my own, to my own satisfaction, then decided it was time to get on with my life! 😂

Try it and see if you don't agree with me.

Ed

DonWood Guest

If I sounded as if I were flaming someone with my previous post. I apologise. That was not my intent. I haven't flown the instrument check ride in FS and it may very well have bugs. I was responding to the post previous to mine which talked about "little" altitude deviations and not knowing what good an ADF was.

It seems to me, FS can be treated either as a game or as a serious method of learning or keeping proficiency. Either is fine but if someone is serious enough to want to pass an instrument checkride, then the requirements should be treated seriously. It does not seem to me anyone is ready for an instrument flight check if they cannot hold altitude or if they are not proficient in the use of an ADF.

There has been a common theme running through many of my posts and that is the need to practice. The FS is more sensitive and more difficult to fly precisely than the real airplanes, at least the ones on which I have experience. I would encourage anyone seriously wanting to be an instrument pilot to go through the commercial qualifications first. As I said before, that will create skill sets essential for instrument flight. I think it also harder to get and maintain those skills in FS because the pilot does not have an instructor flying with them regularly and pointing out problems with technique and lapses in course/speed/altitude in various flight regimes.

My instrument instructor carried a plastic water bottle and smacked me in the head with it everytime I went below a glide slope, busted an assigned altitude, or let my course line deviate. That kind of correction is missed when flying without supervision and so we learn to tolerate deviations that a flight examiner would fail us for on a flight check. I think the only way to overcome that is to hold ourselves to strict standards and that was what I was commenting on.

Pro Member First Officer
PH First Officer

ADF- I think most of you posting fly in the US, I gained my ATP in the UK and on the IR test an NDB approach is part of it as is an ILS. I did my PPL in the states and never saw an NDB until I flew over here. Very dodgy equipment but the CAA think GPS is devils magic!

The Anonymous Guest Guest

Yea, welll i think you can look at checkride in many different ways. Im very dedicated to passing this checkride. Ive made it to the point of where i landed and then been told the instructor that i failed because i did not complete the procedure turn correctly. Then i read a previous post stating that your past the 10nm if you follow what she says, even though i followed a previous set by set post. But i suppose ill keep searching for more answers.

And just a note on DonWood's post. Its not that im offended or that you offeneded anyone but i didnt mean im not able to stay within an assigned altitude, but more of what you said, that im a new private pilot who doesnts have that experience yet. You see everyone once in a while(usually near the holding part) im very very focused on lining up for VOR, that i slowly start to let my altitude drop about 500feet too low and then she tells me i fail. But ive gotten over that since i have completed all the bugs except for the procedure turn.

Guest

Sorry for posting again, but i just failed the procedure turn again and i cant find any post about it.
So does ANYONE have anyclue why im failing this procedure turn.The chart says 10nm and i know for a fact that i go past 10nm, so HOW do i pass this or pass this bug???

Guest Ed Guest

It may not be the procedure turn that is failing you-- if I recall correctly, there are only certain points in the flight at which the examiner will TELL YOU you've failed-- when you start the "go around" is one, and when you enter the holding pattern is another. If you make any error before that point, the examiner won't fail you until you get to that point.

So if you get to the procedure turn and then she fails you, it may be that it was something before that in leaving your holding pattern, or the flight from KSEA to the start of the turn, or something in the turn. If you at any time you see a yellow warning, YOU HAVE ALREADY FAILED, she just hasn't told you yet.

I'm not even sure that exceeding the 10 nm limit will fail you, but I'm pretty sure (having tried MANY times) that you can't enter the turn as prescribed and not exceed 10 nm.

But congratulations, you've already made it further than I ever did! 😂

Ed

Guest

yea the last point in which shes ever told me that i failed was once finished holding. So after that i was all good, no problems since i was flying straight, and the the procedure turn as even described on the website that has been helping me. Soooooo i thought about this long and hard,, either there is some other kind of bug, either i cant not exceed the 10nm or im just stupid. But sigh ill just keep trying, spend 45 minutes finishing and then being told i failed. If she could be a little more specific in what i did wrong the procedure turn THAT WOULD HELP.

Guest

1) After completing the procedure turn, intercept and begin tracking the 130* inbound course for your SEA ILS RWY 13R approach. DO NOT "peg" the NAV/Glidepath needle on the NAV1 indicator once you begin to intercept the course or you will fail the checkride.

Does anyone know what this person means by peg?

DonWood Guest

"peg" mean full needle deflection to the right or left. In old style directional guages, there was a small post or peg on the extreme right and left sides. If the needle was fully deflected, it hit that peg. Thus pilot shorthand evolved into "pegging the needle".

Pegging the needle will fail either an instrument check ride or a proficiency check ride.

Guest

Ohhh, well i didnt peg the needle so hmmmm ill just go back and fly somemore.

Invertor1 Guest

I have tried everything to pass this ILS Checkride. And still I am denied satisfaction.

Does anyone know why Microsoft doesn't just come out and help us all get through this?

You would think they would be all over it.

Thanks...
Mitch
www.austinproject.net

Pro Member Chief Captain
CRJCapt Chief Captain

I have not taken the test your taking but something you wrote made me pause. A procedure turn(PT) normally requires you to stay within 10 nm of a designated point not exceed that distance. There are some locations that do require you to go out past a certain point but most don't. I would check that. There is also a known bug in the Instrument check ride see my previous post below.

https://forum.flyawaysimulation.com/forum/topic/11303/need-help-on-instrument-checkride/#68782

I assume that you are using Flight Simulator 2004. Tell me what approach you are doing the PT on and where to find it. I will give you a more accurate opinion after I review the chart. 🙂

t@y Guest

You r absolutely right. u have to do that PT within 10 nm. ive been tryin that checkride for some time already and needless to say that ive failed a lot of times!
actually there was a bug in it. check rod machado's website for more information abt that bug.

Pro Member Trainee
klubkonr Trainee

Just some hints for you. These actually work to get around those little bugs in the flight sim software. I've been trying this checkride for over two years on fs9 and on fsx and the only little cheats that work are as follows:
1. For your altitude problems, only go below or above or below the assigned altitude about 50-60 feet MAXIMUM
2. When you execute the missed approach and cross PARKK intersection at 5.8 nm, climb to three thousand feet, THEN turn left to a heading of 160 and rotate your OBS to 150 DURING YOUR TURN.It slips right passed the little holding pattern bug. Everyone says to use parallel entry to the holding pattern, and there right, it works even though its a little awkward considering your position. The 140 degree radial means that the inbound heading is 320 and the outbound heading is 140. A teardrop entry can possibly be used... I think. The thing that I can't get straight is where do you find the holding fix? How do you know where it is positioned?
3. You're lucky if you get through the holding pattern section of the test. But if you do, make sure that you cross NOLLA before 8.4 nm on your DME. When you make your course reversal for the ILS approach to Boeing Field, KEEP YOUR WINGS AS LEVEL AS POSSIBLE. Honestly, I've been trying this checkride for two years and Ive finally made it through by using this information, so it should work for you. I'm only 11 and I have over 7 hours of private pilot flight training and 675 flight hours total in Flight simulator x. I cant even imagine my time if I combined my fsx time with my fs9 time! Yet, don't get me wrong, try these and you'll see these work. Trust me! ( you can see a couple of videos of me flying at [url]Youtube.com. Type in connor flying 2. Im in the captains seat

Pro Member Chief Captain
Drew B (belgeode) Chief Captain

klubkonr... just a little FYI... check the dates at the top of each thread before posting.

You are posting on a thread that has been dead for 2 years.

Don't sweat it, we all made the same mistake when we first joined.

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