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ILS Approach Guide/Tutorial

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99jolegg
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Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 9:37 am 

Welcome to the forums, glad to see your account was activated Wink

Cheers!
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Greekman72
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Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 10:05 am 

Patient always wins Exclamation .Welcome to Fly Awaymy friend:wink:
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YellowC4S
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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 1:20 pm 

Thank You. I want to fly a jet...ANY JET. I used the procedures you outlined in your approach guide. Works fine for props, even though I can land a prop on my own. But I cannot for the life of me do a short flight from KDET to KDTW in a 737 and land. I get on the approach correctly, have NAV set up with the ILS frequency. Slope looks good. I get all the way to the runway and crash on the runway. I've monitored my speed, flaps and everything. Took the Cessna and flew from Detroit City Airport to Toronto, then on to Montreal. In Montreal I decided to change planes to the Boeing 737 and then fly on to Maine. I get all the way to the airport at Bangor. Everything is working correctly but I crash on the runway. I'm relying strictly on the instruments because I can't "see" the runway from the cockpit. Flew the Airbus from Detroit Metro to LAX...loooooooooooong flight, only to crash at the runway. I've been kinda cheatin' though. I get almost there in a 747 and switch midair into the Cessna. I'm going to go and read some more.
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99jolegg
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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 1:29 pm 

Firstly, if you can't see the runway over the panel, press SHIFT + ENTER (I think) which will raise the seat so you can see the runway. Without more information it is hard to say why you are crashing but if you are monitoring the flaps and speed, it could be that you are hitting the runway hard and collapsing the gear and crashing. Give us some more information or make a flight video / take pictures, and we'll be able to be more specific. For now, monitor your VSI and make sure you aren't descending more than -250 fpm when you are hitting the runway or you are likely to crash. Make sure your speed is around 130 KIAS in a 737 aswell Wink
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chrissie
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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 6:08 pm 

Thanks now I can land without killing about 120 passenger every trip. You link really helped me out on landing and I am really happy now. Thanks again
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Guest






Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 1:46 am 

I have a question regarding the GPS approach - once it has been entered, activated and you on a Vectors approach to the runway is there any way to turn on the autopilot glideslope approach? Is that only available with a NAV landing?

Thanks!
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99jolegg
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Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 6:26 am 

Once you have activated the ILS vectors approach, it will show you a red line, eminating from the beginning of the runway you are landing on. Now, to follow any line on the GPS, you need to have the GPS/NAV switch to GPS and you can then engage the NAV button on the autopilot. Remember, this will not guide your aircraft to the runway. As far as the GPS is concerned, it is just following the route you have selected, so it won't descend to the runway, rather it will line you up with the runway horizontally. If you want to use the APP button, i.e. follow the glideslope using both axes, then you must follow the ILS approach guides in this same post at the beginning Wink

Hope that helps Wink
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Karl41
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Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 4:34 pm 

Thanks for the approach guides, just what I am looking for. I printed off your GPS guide but didnt get too far, I was unable to type in the code in this case EGLL as in your guide. What am I doing wrong? Nothing happens when I hit the keys??????

Weird, or maybe I am stupid, probably the latter. Very Happy

Karl
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99jolegg
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Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 4:42 pm 

You have to make sure that it is highlighted properly, by following the steps before correctly. Once the ICAO field is highlighted, you just need to type in the code (EGLL) and it will show up Wink

and Welcome to the forums Group Wave
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Tailhook
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Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 8:10 pm 

Welcome to the forums Karl41! Cheers!
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Karl41
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Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:23 pm 

Thanks folks, I am enjoying my membership, alot to learn though. Smile
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CRJCapt
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Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:08 pm 

Welcome Karl. Clapping
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FinAir
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Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:15 pm 

Thanks and applauses to you joe landing guides was perfect and i also can land without killin all passangers in my plane Clap Clap Clap Clap Clap javascript:emoticon('Clap')
Clap lol Very Happy
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Mc_GaNgStA
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Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 7:32 pm 

This guide has helped me too....thanks a lot joe. Very Happy
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-Jester-
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Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 3:44 pm 

Am I doing something wrong?

I set up the ILS Freq. in NAV1 pressed the switch button, pressed the NAV1 button, I put the ILS heading in my Course Selector and then switched from GPS back to NAV. Now it will tell me what I need to do to get lined up but it does not tell me my decent rate or if I need to climb.

oh I am flying the Boeing 737-Default.
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99jolegg
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Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 3:53 pm 

Jester,

Are you hearing the morse code identifier correctly?

If you are then it could be a few other things.

1) Firstly, you might be too far away from the ILS beacon to get a proper fix. Open the GPS and wait until you are 10nm away from vectors and then change to NAV.

2) You might be too high which would stop the ILS display functioning properly. When you intercept the ILS approach, you should be below 3000 feet and above 2500 feet. I personally choose around 2800 feet to intercept it.

3) You might be too fast when intercepting the ILS beams. If you are flying the default 734 then you should be at around 160 KIAS when intercepting.

After you have checked all of the above, look at the HSI and you should have 2 axes (the horizontal and vertical axes) with 'directions' to the runway threshold.

Hope that helps Wink
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-Jester-
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Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:12 pm 

cool thanks 99 I am in a flight now so I will let you know how it goes later.
slow is smooth, smooth is fast
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99jolegg
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Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:20 pm 

No problems, hope your flight goes well Thumbs Up!
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-Jester-
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Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 5:16 pm 

Well it was awesome thanks 99, I got a "Nice Landing" I was a little off center when I landed and I used reverse thrust below 60 knots whitch cost me 300 points but hey I am not complaining, I am still in the learning stage and I am happy, compared to what happend to me yesterday.

thanks 99

-Nick Very Happy
slow is smooth, smooth is fast
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99jolegg
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Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 2:21 pm 

Nick,

Glad to hear you had a nice flight Thumbs Up! Keep practicing, and your landings will keep getting better and better Wink
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amermel
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Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 8:55 pm 

top notch old chap
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-Jester-
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Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:11 pm 

sorry one more question, How come I have to switch to NAV when I am 10nm out? I am just wondering because I seen FSPX reports that say
-50ftpm? are they on glideslope or am I just being an idiot? Embarassed
slow is smooth, smooth is fast
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99jolegg
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Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 8:38 am 

You switch to NAV (from GPS) if you are going to engage the APP button for the approach, until 200 feet. If you are flying visually then you don't need any of the ILS techniques - just use the PAPI.

I am confused as to the connection between the GPS/NAV switch and the touchdown vertical descent speed Umm...

Could you explain a bit more please?

Wink
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-Jester-
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Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 1:45 am 

Sure, Sorry I couldnt reply sooner, What I mean is this I see people saying that their decent rate is -146.9FT/M ( as seen below)

Report:

Flight Distance: 20 Nm Landing Speed: 118.92 kt
Time Airborne: 00h20:05 Landing Touchdown: -146.9 ft/m (kiss)
Flight Time (block): 00h31:14 Landing Pitch: -1.66°
Time On Ground: 00h12:54 Landing Weight: 5180 lbs
Average Speed: 62.22 kt Total Fuel Used: 64 lbs
Max. Altitude: 4386ft Fuel Not Used: 786 lbs


So My question is How do they know when to start their decent and what are they following, ( How do they know when they are decending to fast or not enough, kind of like when you are on glideslope and it tells you to decend or climb.) ? or is it just instinct?


Maybe I have explained it better this time if not I will eventually find out.

Thanks for the help!! Very Happy


-Nick
slow is smooth, smooth is fast
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99jolegg
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Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:17 am 

The landing touchdown speed is the rate at which your landing gear actually touches the runway - this doesn't have much to do with your approach angle (to a certain extent). You could follow a 6 degree glideslope (very steep) or a 1.5 degree glideslope (very shallow) and still have a touchdown descent rate of -100fpm, so landing touchdown speed is irrelevant (to a certain extent) to the approach angle.

If you want to know how do you know when you are supposed to be descending from cruising altitude, say FL350, then have a look at this post:

Arrow https://forum.flyawaysimulation.com/forum/topic/3299/three-questions-about-landing/

In the real world, for commercial aircraft, the FMC controls the Top of Descent (TOD) and the rate of descent.

If you mean in smaller GA aircraft, then you use your instinct. You are unlikely to be flying at above around 11000 feet so it makes the judging of descending quite a lot easier.

Once you get to the runway, you can either use the PAPI / VASI lights to descend, or the ILS or any other type of approach that tells you the correct glideslope, or again, you can judge it visually in which you use your experience and intuition to descend.

Hope that helps - if not, come back Wink
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-Jester-
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Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:43 am 

Cool thanks a bunch Very Happy
slow is smooth, smooth is fast
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Oberkomando
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Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 4:05 am 

Thatīs useful to me too.
Thanks guys. Smile
" Every manīs work is a portrait of himself"...Anonymous.
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Chris102
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Posted: Sun May 21, 2006 8:10 pm 

I can never get the autopilot to line the plane up with the runway... Is there something I'm doing wrong? I went through all the steps..
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pilotwannabe
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Posted: Sun May 21, 2006 8:16 pm 

Check these points...

- Have you got the NAV/GPS switch set to NAV
- Are you at the right height
- Are you adhereing to ATC vectors
- Does the runway have ILS
- Have you engaged the APP mode
- Have you set the correct ILS frequency in the NAV1 radio and identified it by morse code
-Have you set the correct course

Hopefully that helps Wink
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TimTim
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Posted: Sun May 21, 2006 8:17 pm 

Chris102 wrote:
I can never get the autopilot to line the plane up with the runway... Is there something I'm doing wrong? I went through all the steps..


Well when you turn it on are both localizer and glide slope active??

Sometimes people may think glide slope is on when it isn't because if localizer is available before glide slope the glide slope will stay in the "perfect glide slope" position

Also it works much better if you are approach it from underneath

Make sure that your altitude is less than about 4000ft, and your speed no more than 200 knots

Also have your airplane reasonably pitched before you go and switch on APP, so it won't sway down jerkily
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