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DFW Air TRaffic control

Pro Member First Officer
JP (jpalmer2004) First Officer

I just wanted to post an interesting news clip i saw last nite on the news here in Dallas....

Appearantly the DFW Air Traffic control has been blaming pilots for errors the ATC is causing (not giving correct altitudes, headings and not answering pilot messages) The head atc at DFW is saying its the pilots fault for there errors......Some close calls include an American and a American express almost ran into each other because the ATC told the American md-80 to turn into the American expresses airspace...The pilot cought it before he hit.......Another one includes a Southwest jet at love feild and another American airlines jet that were heading straight for each other at the same altitude and speed...(again pilot found out before they kssed noses)

But the one i loved the most was an American 767 who was leaking fuel and request an emergancy landing approach headed straight in....the ATC denied his request DENIED!! Shocked his approach and told him to go around and come in from the south......Again they blame the pilot

none of the ATC have been fired...The ATC that has came forward was fired because she came forward...........You can't be making these kinda mistakes here in DFW or anywhere......Heck we have 5 major airports here and have at least 4 planes landing at dfw at one single time........These crazy people are gonna kill somebody!!!

-S

Pro Member Chief Captain
Cheeks Chief Captain

wholly s**t they DENIED an emergency landing Shocked

Pro Member Chief Captain
Drew B (belgeode) Chief Captain

That is totally insane! I saw bits and pieces of this article... but I did not think it was as bad as that! WOW.

How do you DENY a landing for a plane leaking fuel?!?!? Did they think the pilot could put a bandaid on it and limp around?

I remember I had a buddy who worked for ATC in Houston, he used to tell me similar stories... it is amazing what you have to go through... not to mention the stress levels and lack of sleep these ppl have.

Pro Member Chief Captain
Welshflyer Chief Captain

Shocked If this is true then to me it amounts to nothing more than criminal negligence. These people are responsible for thousands of lives daily, the responsible Air Traffic Controllers that do their job to the best of their abilities every day are probably thinking that everyone thinks they are all like this "which they are NOT" The majority take the stress every day and ensure that those that travel by air are safe! They do a fantastic job and the actions of a minority should'nt reflect on them all.
My own humble opinion only of course Smile !

Pro Member Trainee
FHeselton Trainee

Maybe they should change frm ATC to ETC Error Traffic Control. Laughing

Pro Member Chief Captain
Jake (JarJarBinks) Chief Captain

well to be and air traffic controler only take a highshcool edu. and hardly any training. personally i think you need to take several classes for this maybe at like a community college or something you know learn approaches, A/C, ext; IN A CLASSROOM! not sitting next to someone in a tower and obersve them while they just run through and direct multiple A/C and try to teach some one how to use a complicated and complex system.

please note:
some of the facts i have stated may not be entirely true im just going on what i have been told so please dont hold me accountable for and misinformation given above in my statement.

thx

JarJar

Pro Member Chief Captain
CRJCapt Chief Captain

The ATC system is overloaded and it's just a matter of time before something bad happens. ATC controllers have a hard job and it's requires a large amount of training and experience to mange a ATC position at an extremely busy airport such as KDFW but it's still not fair to blame the pilots. ATC controllers are talking on two or maybe even three frequencies at a time, so much radio chatter that it hard for pilots to make or respond to required radio calls. The FAA is allowing airlines to schedule more flights into an airport than ATC can handle. Airports can't handle the volume of cars, bags or flights. The airlines just want to fly more and more people while reducing ticket prices to try and undercut other airlines. They are going for volume instead quality.

Note:
One thing that even some professional pilots don't get or have forgotten is that in an emergency, you don't need ATC approval to do anything. You don't request, you tell ATC what you're going to do or what you need them to do. If you don't have time, you don't tell them anything. Pilot in command has the authority to deviate from any regulation as necessary during an emergency. It's their job to get everyone else out of your way. Aviate, Navigate and Communicate. Communication has the last priority.



Last edited by CRJCapt on Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:20 pm, edited 1 time in total
Pro Member Chief Captain
VegasFlyer Chief Captain

CRJCapt wrote:

Note:
One thing that even some professional pilots don't get or have forgotten is that in an emergency, you don't need ATC approval to do anything. You don't request, youtellATC what you're going to do or what you need them to do. If you don't have time, you don't tell them anything. Pilot in command has the authority to deviate from any regulation as necessary during an emergency. It's their job to get everyone else out of your way. Aviate, Navigate and Communicate. Communication has the last priority.

WOW, I've never heard this before! Thnx for the info CRJ!

Pro Member Chief Captain
Drew B (belgeode) Chief Captain

Captain, that was spot on the money there! It's a syndrome going round that if unchecked I am sure is going to get deadly really really soon.

I WISH i could find that article again about fatigue, insomnia and ATC controllers...

Pro Member Trainee
renesis Trainee

In these type of cases the airline can opt to carry out it's own or get an independent investigation.

If ATC are genuinely at fault (and they make mistakes like pilots) there is a whole host of their own equipment to drop them in it - recordings of radar traces and voice etc.

Shouldn't be too difficult to pin the blame on he who deserves.

I agree with CRJCapt in that you as Pilot in Command have the final authority on any matter regarding the safety of your craft and crew. That pilot can also depart from any regulation in the interests of safety if he deems it necessary - but be prepared to explain your reasons to the FAA. Also. in the real world you're often compelled to declare you're "unable to comply" with an instruction. The onus is then back on ATC to revise it.

Anyone worth their salt would try to get a 7700 off or at least put out a call maybe as simple as "Callsign, straight in for 24R with X emergency, standby...." That's enought to get a few folks huddled round your scope and get you back in or wherever suits you.

Pro Member Chief Captain
VegasFlyer Chief Captain

I've read in the newspapers the other day that those two unfortunate pilots were talking with each other during taxi about their jobs, salaries and how unhappy thay are with it. I believe that's the reason they were so distracted to actually taxi onto the wrong runway. Of course, ATC was supposed to warn them about it.

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