ILS approach with jets

In jets you will notice magenta bars appear on the PFD when within range of the ILS you have tuned. The horizontal bars tell you if you are in line with the runway centerline and the vertical bars tell if you if your altitude is correct.

ok thanks for the reply but, I'm not familiar with all these terms and stuff.. would someone mind elaborating on the reply above please?

This is the Primary Flight Display (PFD) of a 737.

The marked pink diamonds are the ones that tells you how high you are and if you are correctly aligned with the runway.
If the horizontal diamond moves to the right, that means you are flying to the right of the runway. You have to turn left to align the horizontal diamond in the center.
It is the same when the horizontal diamond moves left. Turn right to align with the runway.

Now, if the vertical diamond moves up, you are too high. Descend a bit to intercept the glideslope.
If the vertical diamond moves down, climb a bit to intercept the glideslope.

If bith diamonds are in the center, it means that you are correctly aligned with the localizer and with the glideslope.

Hope this helps 😉

SeanGa wrote:

In the cessna, there's a vertical needle and a horizontal needle. This allows me to know the position of the aircraft - I know whether or not I'm aligned with the runway, and if I have the appropriate altitude.

In jets though, I only see whether or not I'm aligned with the runway, but not if my altitude is appropriate.

How can I see this?

If I understand you correctly, you are aligned with the runway horizontally but not vertically because vertical bar in Agus' picture isn't showing, so you don't know how high you are on the ILS glideslope. I've had this problem quite a few times, and most of the time it is either sorted by switching to NAV on the NAV/GPS toggle switch or looking at the HSI (horizontal situation indicator) which shows the compass rose. Sometimes in some panels, the ILS glideslope indicators exist here instead of the PFD. Sorry if I have misunderstood you, let us know how you get on 😉

99jolegg wrote:

SeanGa wrote:

In the cessna, there's a vertical needle and a horizontal needle. This allows me to know the position of the aircraft - I know whether or not I'm aligned with the runway, and if I have the appropriate altitude.

In jets though, I only see whether or not I'm aligned with the runway, but not if my altitude is appropriate.

How can I see this?

If I understand you correctly, you are aligned with the runway horizontally but not vertically because vertical bar in Agus' picture isn't showing, so you don't know how high you are on the ILS glideslope. I've had this problem quite a few times, and most of the time it is either sorted by switching to NAV on the NAV/GPS toggle switch or looking at the HSI (horizontal situation indicator) which shows the compass rose. Sometimes in some panels, the ILS glideslope indicators exist here instead of the PFD. Sorry if I have misunderstood you, let us know how you get on 😉

In Agus picture you need to fly left as you are not aligned (diamond ) with center line and you are slightly above the path

Agus0404 wrote:

If the horizontal diamond moves to the right, that means you are flying to the right of the runway. You have to turn left to align the horizontal diamond in the center.

hm...if the diamond moves to the right, then I turn Right to align myself again.. not left. 🤔
I haven't been setting the course 180deg. off all this time, have I?

lkw wrote:

99jolegg wrote:

SeanGa wrote:

In the cessna, there's a vertical needle and a horizontal needle. This allows me to know the position of the aircraft - I know whether or not I'm aligned with the runway, and if I have the appropriate altitude.

In jets though, I only see whether or not I'm aligned with the runway, but not if my altitude is appropriate.

How can I see this?

If I understand you correctly, you are aligned with the runway horizontally but not vertically because vertical bar in Agus' picture isn't showing, so you don't know how high you are on the ILS glideslope. I've had this problem quite a few times, and most of the time it is either sorted by switching to NAV on the NAV/GPS toggle switch or looking at the HSI (horizontal situation indicator) which shows the compass rose. Sometimes in some panels, the ILS glideslope indicators exist here instead of the PFD. Sorry if I have misunderstood you, let us know how you get on 😉

In Agus picture you need to fly left as you are not aligned (diamond ) with center line and you are slightly above the path

In my picture, you need to turn right to align with the runway and descend a bit to intercept the glideslope.

ARD-DC wrote:

Agus0404 wrote:

If the horizontal diamond moves to the right, that means you are flying to the right of the runway. You have to turn left to align the horizontal diamond in the center.

hm...if the diamond moves to the right, then I turn Right to align myself again.. not left. 🤔

Really? I do the opposite and it woks perfectly.

Note that I always fly Airbuses, so probably Boeing's PFD is different than Airbus' PFD.

Well, I always think of it this way; the diamond is the line you need to follow. If it moves away from you, chase it so that you get it back in the centre. I thought that is why this is called "chasing the needle"..

Also in reply to post#1, (not sure if you already do this but...) when you're flying jets on ILS approaches, it is significantly more important to ensure you have your course to the exact heading of the runway you're lining up with. If your course setting is off, you'll most likely find yourself unable to maintain a straight line...

Agus, How did you capture the picture of the PFD so cleanly? You also added notations. It may be a simple thing but I don't how to do it. Did you use special software?

Yes, I do that. When approaching my destination airport I always make sure if I have everything set correctly.

What airplanes do you fly, ARD-DC?

CRJCapt wrote:

Agus, How did you capture the picture of the PFD so cleanly? You also added notations. It may be a simple thing but I don't how to do it. Did you use special software?

The picture was taken from Google 😉
As for the notations, I used Adobe Photoshop. I grabbed the paint brush, chose the color, and made those circles.

If you don't have Adobe Photoshop, you can use Paint, which comes with Microsoft.

Thanks. 🙂

My pleasure 😉

Very interesting posts guys, thanks

Regards

ARD-DC, you were right. After some minutes of research, I've found that when approaching an airport you ahve to chase the needles to align with the runway. However, when the vertical diamon moves up, that means you are going above the glideslope and you need to descend.

The localizer signal doesn't move around. It's you that you are moving around so when you are off the localizer, the needles are there to help you find the localizer back. Thus, you need to follow the needles.

I'm sorry about my mistake.

hm.. to get this straight: if the horizontal diamond is to the right, I have to make a turn to the right, and when it starts moving back, I turn to the left to intercept the glide-slope, and the diamond will then center.

If I'm completly wrong, please reply fast before many people die 😛

thanks for everything guys, I'll reply to this thread after trying things out

edit: oh, and btw, I always used the VOR indicator below the attitude indicator as an ILS indicator (you know, the purple rectangular thingie that looks like a runway)

now I know why I couldn't see my altitude... I was using the wrong instrument/display 😛

The right end of the Glide Slope needle(small aircraft) is the same indication as the magenta diamond on the PFD. Read this. 🙂

http://www.navfltsm.addr.com/ils.htm

SeanGa wrote:

hm.. to get this straight: if the horizontal diamond is to the right, I have to make a turn to the right, and when it starts moving back, I turn to the left to intercept the glide-slope, and the diamond will then center.

If I'm completly wrong, please reply fast before many people die 😛

thanks for everything guys, I'll reply to this thread after trying things out

edit: oh, and btw, I always used the VOR indicator below the attitude indicator as an ILS indicator (you know, the purple rectangular thingie that looks like a runway)

now I know why I couldn't see my altitude... I was using the wrong instrument/display 😛

Basically move the aircraft in the direction the of the diamonds. If the vertical is above, then climb and vice versa. If the horizontal diamond is to the right, turn right. As someone has already said, 'chase the needles'

😉

Agus0404 wrote:

What airplanes do you fly, ARD-DC?

well, as I recently started with FSPassengers I've been flying cessna's, mooneys and barons for some 40 or so hours now, but before I started that, I was doing most of the flying in the default Boeing 734.
I've installed some bigger iDFG and Meljet planes but all Boeings so far.

I am keen on trying some of the airbuses though, although right now I am in the middle of fiddling with AI traffic...that will probably keep me entertained for a while. When I need some good Airbus planes/panels I'll know who to speak to now

😀 Airbuses aircraft are not hard to fly, though.

Can I give you an advice? iFDG's Boeings are not very good. I know some people that had problems with their iFDG Boeings.
This website www.projectopensky.com have very good, and detailed Boeings. Their flight dynamics are close to the real ones. Some of them are not very accurate, but there are fixes.

😉

Problem solved guys! thanks a bunch

I am not an instrument instructor so forgive me for possibly not explaining this well enough.
Incercepting the ILS you are normally vectored to intercept within 45 degrees of the FAT. So if the FAT/runway heading is 180 degrees ATC bring you in for example from the left to close on a heading of 210. Now you as the pilot always need to know where you are relative to the airport even if you can't see it (GPS makes life too easy!) It is important and I remember Don Wood also mentioning this in a post some time ago use as many nav aids as possible to help determine where you are. Tune the ADF, tune VOR2 etc. I digress but it is always good to have a second opinion...crosscheck info from ADF to VOR1/VOR2check all is correct.

Back to the ILS, so you are on a heading of 210 you have VOR1 tuned to the ILS, the VOR2 is also possibly pointing to about 180 as is the ADF so you know the ILS should soon come alive. Good instrument pilots can anticipate when the needle will start moving by using secondary instruments. The ILS comes alive so you need to turn from your present heading towards the Final Approach Track which in this case we have used 180 degrees. Timing is important as the idea is to reach 180 as the ILS needle centres. Once you have the needle centred keep it there by making slight alterations. (A good thing to do to practice keeping on the localiser is to track to a VOR...the closer you get the more sensitive it becomes.) Now if there was no such thing as wind all would be well but unfortunately you need to account for this.
So we are on the localiser (180) and the wind is from our left (we will know where it is from and how strong it is as we have picked up the ATIS) So we need to steer into the wind to maintain our track of 180...heading therefore may need tobe 170-175. Hold 175 for a while is this holding the needle centred? Yes -great! No- okay get centred then try a different heading.
Finally for the glideslope set up so you just glide down the slope without needing to pitch up and down change throttle etc. Once you know what settings work for which aircraft it becomes a breeze...it just stays centred!
All this in a nutshell so please forgive me.

thanks, that was a really good reply 🙂

but what does vectors mean? often when I'm flying the approach the ATC says "expect vectors" blabla

Take it to be "directions". ATC will give you headings to fly in order to line you up for an intercept with the ILS.... although that said they can vector you for all types of IFR approaches