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so where the hell is it??

Pro Member First Officer
simon roourke (simon123) First Officer

not happy Evil or Very Mad
ho yes i also lost my job!

24 Responses

Pro Member Chief Captain
CRJCapt Chief Captain

Sorry to hear that but what are you looking for? Dont Know

Pro Member First Officer
simon roourke (simon123) First Officer

this!!

Fokker-100 and the Foker-70

Pro Member Chief Captain
Tailhook Chief Captain
Pro Member First Officer
simon roourke (simon123) First Officer

thanks but when i try to download it all i get is this,,

The page cannot be displayed..????

i get that on all the downloads.

Pro Member First Officer
kianok First Officer

Think they are having problems with their site.

Keep hitting refresh when you get page cannot be displayed, it usually works eventually.

Pro Member Chief Captain
Greekman72 Chief Captain

Go to downloads section of our site.In the search blank type Project Fokker and you get it.

If you have problems let me know and i will upload it for you. 😉

Pro Member Captain
Dave Copeland (davec) Captain

For Simon123

Take Tailhook's advice

The Project Fokker team have copyrighted all the aspects of the Fokker 70/100 and have included the restriction that the a/c cannot be downloaded from any site other than their own.
In fact before you can download the a/c from their site you must express agreement to the EULA conditions.
The file available from the Flyaway site has even different title and was uploaded on 17 Nov 2003 - which seems a bit dated.

For Greekman72 - my friend, I know you are trying to help Simon123 get something he really wants and I admire you for your kindness but I am sure what you are suggesting is also a breach of the Project Fokker EULA conditions.

I have just visited the Project Fokker site and had no problems in going through the download process and could have downloaded it - but as you know, I already have it on my system.

Pro Member Chief Captain
Greekman72 Chief Captain

davec wrote:

For Greekman72 - my friend, I know you are trying to help Simon123 get something he really wants and I admire you for your kindness but I am sure what you are suggesting is also a breach of the Project Fokker EULA conditions.

I hasnt passed through my mind... Embarassed Apologise and thank you very much for notice it to me dear Dave CBow Down Bow Down Bow Down

Pro Member Chief Captain
Tailhook Chief Captain

simon123 wrote:

thanks but when i try to download it all i get is this,,

The page cannot be displayed..????

i get that on all the downloads.

There's nothing wrong with the site Simon, Project Fokker's files are hosted by avsim.com.
On the Project Fokker page left hand pane click on 'Download'. On the same page you'll find on the right hand pane all the updates.

As DaveC above pointed out, this is the right thing to do. I fail to comprehend why folks insist on downloading files from Flyaway -- go to the source where you are likely to find relevant updates.
Nonsense? I dare you, put it to the test. You can start with the Project Fokker... find the file at Flyaway and then look for the updates. Next, go to the big ones like avsim.com or flightsim.com and you'll find updates you didn't know existed.
Go ahead, try a few more -- or don't and keep wondering why the aircraft you've downloaded from Flyaway won't fly properly.

Pro Member Chief Captain
Greekman72 Chief Captain

Personally i download it from Fly Away..It works perfect and i have no problmes at all...I do my job so its ok for me. Dont Know 😉

Pro Member Chief Captain
Tailhook Chief Captain

Greekman72 wrote:

Personally i download it from Fly Away..It works perfect and i have no problmes at all...I do my job so its ok for me. Dont Know 😉

It's ok for you if

a) you don't care about the authors intellectual property

b) you are not interested in updates which complete and improve the files

Greekman, it's obvious that you spend many hours and a lot of effort on what you are doing both in your professional life and while pursuing your hobby. You are not the only one.
The authors off flightsim freeware add-ons work very hard to achieve their results. I don't find it such an outrageous request on their part if they ask for their work not to be distributed to certain flightsim portals without their permission.
If you are still in doubt regarding the 'Project Fokker', then please click on this link and read the EULA :

http://library.avsim.net/download.php?DLID=58072

Pro Member Chief Captain
Greekman72 Chief Captain

Thank you for let me know all of these useful infos dear Tailhook and be sure that im the last person in planet that i will doubt about your(and many others)knowledges about Add-ons.Im totally amateur to this. Embarassed

My question is the following.I didnt knew about all of these terms and conditions about the specific craft but how then it is published for download from Fly Away?

I find this craft here and simple download it,i get no message that i was illegal or something... Dont Know How i could know about it?

Pro Member Chief Captain
Tailhook Chief Captain

Greekman72 wrote:

Thank you for let me know all of these useful infos dear Tailhook and be sure that im the last person in planet that i will doubt about your(and many others)knowledges about Add-ons.Im totally amateur to this. Embarassed

My question is the following.I didnt knew about all of these terms and conditions about the specific craft but how then it is published for download from Fly Away?

I find this craft here and simple download it,i get no message that i was illegal or something... Dont Know How i could know about it?

You could know about it if you took the time to read the readme files. But I am not picking on you. I am well aware of the fact that it is a minority who actually read any kind of documentation that comes with the files -- hence the eternal confusion about how to install the files. Let's be honest, reading has gone out of fashion.

But I will show no mercy for you Greekman, not because I dislike you in anyway, but because you specifically asked for it ❗ So here is something more for you to read. I know it has appeared in these forums before -- but I also know that hardly anybody took any notice of these posts because it was just too much to read. What a pity.

I admit that reading all those posts carefully and trying to remain objective, there seems to be a gray area (in legal terms) that I can neither condone nor condemn. If you read Mr. Flyaways response you will see that he has certainly all the legal avenues covered - at least it seems like that to me.

Legalities aside - I have my own opinion of what is fair and what is not.
And finally, the authors of those posts are not 15 year old boys who just joined the flightsim community - on the contrary - they have been around for years and their names and contributions are well known to many of us.

Here then are the links:

My opinion - and I dare anyone to prove me wrong: Flyaway is the only flightsim portal where you can not download freeware add-ons unless you have paid for the privilege.
Though flightsim.com for example restrict your access as a non-paying member, they will not charge for downloads as such - and what is more, if they tell you that your time limit today is 2 hours, but your download takes 4 hours because you're on dial-up, they will not cut you off. That, to me is fair. At flightsim.com you can download all their files for free despite their time restrictions.

Pro Member Chief Captain
Greekman72 Chief Captain

Check your PM.

Pro Member Chief Captain
CrashGordon Chief Captain

The fact that Flyaway offered the package despite published restrictions and copyright notices, does, in my opinion violate the owner's rights. It isn't the only package I have found here that has restrictions that preclude it from being here.

Downloading the package from Flyaway does not violate anything since, the downloader has no knowledge of the copyright or restrictions prior to downloading and opening the zip file. I don't even have it at http://www.omega-air.org/fleet02.htm , but point to their site, which is a PITA.

The Fokker Project apparently wants total control over everything pertaining to their model. My personal opinion is that they want to play Obergruppenfuhrer. Next, I suspect, they'll want no one to to mention any flaws they find. Evil or Very Mad

So if you want to take on someone in this conversation, I'll volunteer since English is my primary language and Greekman72 may be at a language disadvantage.

Pro Member Captain
Dave Copeland (davec) Captain

Crash Gordon wrote
The Fokker Project apparently wants total control over everything pertaining to their model. My personal opinion is that they want to play Obergruppenfuhrer. Next, I suspect, they'll want no one to to mention any flaws they find. Evil or Very Mad

I feel that I must relate my experience of dealing with the Project Fokker team - I sought their permission to repaint their Fokker 70/100 and included a screenshot of the repaint for their perusal, in the same email I suggested that one of the Fokker bmp files had a slight error therein.
They replied that they were pleased that their Fokker was sufficiently popular for flightsimmers to want their own airlines painted on the a/c. They also expressed gratitude for pointing out, and apologies for the bmp file error. The whole tone of their response was certainly a long way from the grossly insulting 'Obergruppenfuhrer' remark above, and the assumption of their reaction to any flaws pointed out.
I have always found that if you treat people with good manners then that is how they will respond, with luckily, very few exceptions.

Pro Member Chief Captain
CrashGordon Chief Captain

I was aware that your dealings with them were quite cordial and I have no doubt that they are very nice people. What I was trying to get at is their over-controlling approach to the distribution of their package.

If, as I suspect they want to be certain that people had access to the latest files, patches, additions, etc., all they had to do is put the information in a readme file, that the latest and greatest could be obtained at....

No one who maintains a web site wants to have anything on it that sends people to another site. I had to link to their download page in a separate window. I couldn't link directly to the file because if they changed the file name, the link would break.

If they choose to regard a site like Flyaway as charging to access the file, I suppose they might be on a stronger footing, but even on this issue, I think they would be overzealous.

I'm looking for another regional jet for our fleet. Their plane is very good, but their, "Thou shalt have no other web site but Avsim", approach to things really burns my butt.

Pro Member Captain
Dave Copeland (davec) Captain

ProjectFokker did not complain in regard to Flyaway charging to access the file but rather to an out of date a/c being available for download and ProjectFokker having to field all the complaints/queries in regard to that download.

If their attitude and the fact that a change of file name makes it less convenient to download the a/c - and as you say 'burns your butt', then don't download the a/c - get it somewhere else and at least your butt will remain burnless but you will probably end up with an inferior aircraft and seven chances out of ten you'll download from the Avsim Library anyway!!
...... or maybe the real solution would be to get a less sensitive butt?

As a matter of interest, a butt in Uk is a wooden barrel used to collect rainwater and at first sight I was envisaging your garden being flooded because someone had burnt your wooden barrel!!!!!

Pro Member Chief Captain
CrashGordon Chief Captain

davec wrote:

ProjectFokker did not complain in regard to Flyaway charging to access the file but rather to an out of date a/c being available for download and ProjectFokker having to field all the complaints/queries in regard to that download.

If their attitude and the fact that a change of file name makes it less convenient to download the a/c - and as you say 'burns your butt', then don't download the a/c - get it somewhere else and at least your butt will remain burnless but you will probably end up with an inferior aircraft and seven chances out of ten you'll download from the Avsim Library anyway!!
...... or maybe the real solution would be to get a less sensitive butt?

As a matter of interest, a butt in Uk is a wooden barrel used to collect rainwater and at first sight I was envisaging your garden being flooded because someone had burnt your wooden barrel!!!!!

ROFL ROTFLMAO ROFL Well, at least I know about bangers and mash.

Strange that they have such a problem when none of the other freeware producers do.

Whether I get something from Avsim or not, I want the right to provide Omega-Air members the files, directly. That way, I know where the file is. I know its name and I know those things won't change.

Pro Member Chief Captain
Tailhook Chief Captain

CrashGordon wrote:

So if you want to take on someone in this conversation, I'll volunteer since English is my primary language and Greekman72 may be at a language disadvantage.

You'd just love that, wouldn't you. Haven't you got anybody nearby - in your household for example you can argue with?
BTW--has it ever occured to you that I too, may be at a language disadvantage??

I always thought you were one of the few who actually reads the posts... but it seems I overestimated you even in this regard. Had you read the post, you would have understood that I was in no way trying to 'take on' Greekman in this conversation. I merely replied to his question in my usual, -- (no,not grumpy) non-groveling manner. I am not surprised that poor Greekman might have been disappointed with my reply since by now he must be so used to being lauded with praise that anything less might seem like an insult to him.

If your concern for Greekman is sincere, you can always clarify linguistic queries for him via PM rather than burdening the forums with your sporadic expulsions of venom.

Having chosen to look for parts in my post that you could get your fangs in and start arguing instead of reading objectively, like it or not, you've completely missed the gist of my post.

I find it peculiar, that from the moment you joined this thread, two objectives seem apparent:
1) start an argument - aka: pick a fight
2) shamelessly promote your own floundering VA

Finally, in one of your recent posts you expressed your principle of not answering or ignoring requests for help even if you know the answer to the query, if posted in an impolite or in any way offending manner.
I personally have no problem with this attitude. But as a gesture of common decency one would expect that you also refrain from posting inflaming comments as replies to the same member(s) you have chosen to ignore.

And that's all I have to say to that. ...which means I won't be revisiting this thread, so whatever overbearing sermon you intend to throw back at me, though it might serve as amusement for some, I will not read it. Period.

If recent trends are anything to go by, this topic will be locked after you've had your chance to retaliate. So get on with it, while the blood is still boiling and you still have the energy ❗

As always, your good friend 🍻

Pro Member Chief Captain
CrashGordon Chief Captain

Except to point out that you could never qualify as my friend, there is no point in my saying anything to you. Sorry if I spoiled your fun. Have a nice life.

Pro Member First Officer
simon roourke (simon123) First Officer

well thanks for all your help chaps.
i,ll be looking into it.

i,m at home now no job to go to you see. 😞

ho well just enjoy my time off.

cheers simon123 😎

Pro Member Chief Captain
Greekman72 Chief Captain

simon123 wrote:

well thanks for all your help chaps.
i,ll be looking into it.

i,m at home now no job to go to you see. 😞

ho well just enjoy my time off.

cheers simon123 😎

That was,indubitably, the best part....👍 ROFL ROFL ROFL

Pro Member Captain
Dave Copeland (davec) Captain

Greekman72 wrote:

simon123 wrote:

well thanks for all your help chaps.
i,ll be looking into it.

i,m at home now no job to go to you see. 😞

ho well just enjoy my time off.

cheers simon123 😎

That was,indubitably, the best part....👍 ROFL ROFL ROFL

Would heartily agree Greekman72 😉 😉

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