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Landing touchdown

Lee Warrington Guest

I can land on the centreline of the runway on the correct glideslope but i cant quite manage to land smooth enough. I am landing at between 250-450f/s. When i flare the G's increase to 2g and the passengers get irritated. When should i flare and how far above the runway. Any tips or visual aiming points that i should do. Thanks Razz

Pro Member First Officer
amermel First Officer

go into spot view and look at the airplanes nose.
now this is difficult to do but......visually look at the airplane and VISUALLY see a smooth landing. But you have to make sure to get the airplane down before the end of the runway or it get worse....

*pst you die*

Sphagnum1 Guest

What plane are you flying and what is your groundspeed on approach? The only way you can be getting exessive G's when you flare is if you pull back on the stick (you are using a joystick, right?) way too hard and or if you are going way too fast. As you are approaching the runway at 500-700 ft/min and you get to around 100 ft off the ground, gently pull back on the stick so that the ft/min gets less and less until it gets as close to 0 (without going positive!!) as you can.

Lee Warrington Guest

Im flying the 737-400 with the realistic panle with callouts like 'pull up terrain'
'1000, 500, 400 300 200 100 50 30 10' in feet. My landing speed is about 130-140 knots and i reduce power to idle just before crossing threshold, is this too early? Question

Pro Member Chief Captain
Jonathan (99jolegg) Chief Captain

I usually find that reducing power to idle at the same time as flaring works quite well. That way, at around 20 feet, you are counteracting the loss of power with the flare (increased lift) so you get a nice smooth landing.
Make sure:
1) You don't flare too early (i.e. don't flare above 30 feet above the runway)
2) Make sure you don't flare too much (gently pull back on the stick and watch your VSI so it doesn't shoot up into the positives. Make a gentle movement at first)
3) Make sure you aren't going too fast (in a 737, 130-140kts should be fine)
4) Make sure you don't cut the power too early/late. At 20 feet, should be fine.

Keep practicing and your landings will get smoother and smoother Wink

Lee W Guest

Last week i was struggling lining up with the localizer but now thats sorted i can practice my smooth landings, thanks for all the advice. Very Happy

I will let you know on my results

Pro Member First Officer
Mohit (Mc_GaNgStA) First Officer

What does flaring mean? I understand how to get on the centre line but when i see that the triangle of the vertical indicator is below, and im around 0.4nm from runway i drop it to idle and pull back but it still hits into the runway and when I looked through tower view, it looked pretty terrifying.

Pro Member Chief Captain
Jonathan (99jolegg) Chief Captain

Flaring is the pulling back of the yoke to lower the descent rate before touching down. Follow the advice given by people above, and you should have smooth landings. The key to a smooth landing is to not make drastic movements on any of the control surfaces and throttle. Practice will help you understand what movements cause different effects on the aircraft Wink

Pro Member Captain
Jared Captain

In the 747-400, you should idle power at about 50 ft. AGL and pull back to a 6 degree up angle and that should give you a good flare.

Guest

I landed that time at -190f/pm with pitch of 5 degrees! Razz better or what! thanks for the tips.

Pro Member Chief Captain
Jonathan (99jolegg) Chief Captain

Group Wave

Hope you have lots more cool landings Thumbs Up!

Guest

flare when you are above the runway threshold, when you flare the nose of the plane will go on to climb up, gently pull forwand on the stick and put her down on the runway....

Pro Member Trainee
rohaizad77 Trainee

Lee Warrington wrote:

I can land on the centreline of the runway on the correct glideslope but i cant quite manage to land smooth enough. I am landing at between 250-450f/s. When i flare the G's increase to 2g and the passengers get irritated. When should i flare and how far above the runway. Any tips or visual aiming points that i should do. Thanks Razz

Hi bro, u mind telling me how u land on the exact centreline of the runaway? Are u using ILS? How to use ILS to land on auto? I get this problem when its almost 5-10secs, the aiming becomes very out. Can advise on step by step how to land on ILS and land on AUTO using MSFS 2004?

Thanks in advance bro

Pro Member Chief Captain
Tailhook Chief Captain

rohaizad77 wrote:

Lee Warrington wrote:

I can land on the centreline of the runway on the correct glideslope but i cant quite manage to land smooth enough. I am landing at between 250-450f/s. When i flare the G's increase to 2g and the passengers get irritated. When should i flare and how far above the runway. Any tips or visual aiming points that i should do. Thanks Razz

Hi bro, u mind telling me how u land on the exact centreline of the runaway? Are u using ILS? How to use ILS to land on auto? I get this problem when its almost 5-10secs, the aiming becomes very out. Can advise on step by step how to land on ILS and land on AUTO using MSFS 2004?

Thanks in advance bro

Welcome to the forums rohaizad77!

This Sticky might help you with some of your questions Arrow https://forum.flyawaysimulation.com/forum/topic/8080/ils-approach-guide-tutorial/

Pro Member Trainee
rohaizad77 Trainee

Tailhook wrote:

rohaizad77 wrote:

Lee Warrington wrote:

I can land on the centreline of the runway on the correct glideslope but i cant quite manage to land smooth enough. I am landing at between 250-450f/s. When i flare the G's increase to 2g and the passengers get irritated. When should i flare and how far above the runway. Any tips or visual aiming points that i should do. Thanks Razz

Hi bro, u mind telling me how u land on the exact centreline of the runaway? Are u using ILS? How to use ILS to land on auto? I get this problem when its almost 5-10secs, the aiming becomes very out. Can advise on step by step how to land on ILS and land on AUTO using MSFS 2004?

Thanks in advance bro

Welcome to the forums rohaizad77!

This Sticky might help you with some of your questions Arrow https://forum.flyawaysimulation.com/forum/topic/8080/ils-approach-guide-tutorial/

hi !! thanks!!

dat was some good article there. will read it while i try to land the 737... thanks bro.

Pro Member Chief Captain
Tailhook Chief Captain

rohaizad77 wrote:

Tailhook wrote:

rohaizad77 wrote:

Lee Warrington wrote:

I can land on the centreline of the runway on the correct glideslope but i cant quite manage to land smooth enough. I am landing at between 250-450f/s. When i flare the G's increase to 2g and the passengers get irritated. When should i flare and how far above the runway. Any tips or visual aiming points that i should do. Thanks Razz

Hi bro, u mind telling me how u land on the exact centreline of the runaway? Are u using ILS? How to use ILS to land on auto? I get this problem when its almost 5-10secs, the aiming becomes very out. Can advise on step by step how to land on ILS and land on AUTO using MSFS 2004?

Thanks in advance bro

Welcome to the forums rohaizad77!

This Sticky might help you with some of your questions Arrow https://forum.flyawaysimulation.com/forum/topic/8080/ils-approach-guide-tutorial/

hi !! thanks!!

dat was some good article there. will read it while i try to land the 737... thanks bro.

You read that while you're trying to land the 737 and you deserve an extra medal -- if you walk away from the landing that is Very Happy

Pro Member Trainee
rohaizad77 Trainee

Tailhook wrote:

rohaizad77 wrote:

Tailhook wrote:

rohaizad77 wrote:

Lee Warrington wrote:

I can land on the centreline of the runway on the correct glideslope but i cant quite manage to land smooth enough. I am landing at between 250-450f/s. When i flare the G's increase to 2g and the passengers get irritated. When should i flare and how far above the runway. Any tips or visual aiming points that i should do. Thanks Razz

Hi bro, u mind telling me how u land on the exact centreline of the runaway? Are u using ILS? How to use ILS to land on auto? I get this problem when its almost 5-10secs, the aiming becomes very out. Can advise on step by step how to land on ILS and land on AUTO using MSFS 2004?

Thanks in advance bro

Welcome to the forums rohaizad77!

This Sticky might help you with some of your questions Arrow https://forum.flyawaysimulation.com/forum/topic/8080/ils-approach-guide-tutorial/

hi !! thanks!!

dat was some good article there. will read it while i try to land the 737... thanks bro.

You read that while you're trying to land the 737 and you deserve an extra medal -- if you walk away from the landing that is Very Happy

Bro, is there any good article on using the GPS bro? I mean when i take off, can the autopilot take me to the airport just like that? I know it can't make me land on auto. When I take off using IFR, there is a pink line inthe map that brings me to the airport but not on the correct approach to the runaway. What should I do ? hmmm... sorry for the newbie question

Thanks.

Pro Member Chief Captain
Tailhook Chief Captain

rohaizad77 wrote:

Tailhook wrote:

rohaizad77 wrote:

Tailhook wrote:

rohaizad77 wrote:

Lee Warrington wrote:

I can land on the centreline of the runway on the correct glideslope but i cant quite manage to land smooth enough. I am landing at between 250-450f/s. When i flare the G's increase to 2g and the passengers get irritated. When should i flare and how far above the runway. Any tips or visual aiming points that i should do. Thanks Razz

Hi bro, u mind telling me how u land on the exact centreline of the runaway? Are u using ILS? How to use ILS to land on auto? I get this problem when its almost 5-10secs, the aiming becomes very out. Can advise on step by step how to land on ILS and land on AUTO using MSFS 2004?

Thanks in advance bro

Welcome to the forums rohaizad77!

This Sticky might help you with some of your questions Arrow https://forum.flyawaysimulation.com/forum/topic/8080/ils-approach-guide-tutorial/

hi !! thanks!!

dat was some good article there. will read it while i try to land the 737... thanks bro.

You read that while you're trying to land the 737 and you deserve an extra medal -- if you walk away from the landing that is Very Happy

Bro, is there any good article on using the GPS bro? I mean when i take off, can the autopilot take me to the airport just like that? I know it can't make me land on auto. When I take off using IFR, there is a pink line inthe map that brings me to the airport but not on the correct approach to the runaway. What should I do ? hmmm... sorry for the newbie question

Thanks.

Sorry my man, I could explain this quite well using my own simple words but in doing so I'm bound to start a war, tread on peoples toes and maybe even cause cardiac arrest for some of the older generation.
I'd better keep my nose out of this, but don't worry, you'll soon be inundated with so much advice, you won't find time to swallow your breakfast. My apologies. Tomato

Pro Member Trainee
rohaizad77 Trainee

Tailhook wrote:

rohaizad77 wrote:

Tailhook wrote:

rohaizad77 wrote:

Tailhook wrote:

rohaizad77 wrote:

Lee Warrington wrote:

I can land on the centreline of the runway on the correct glideslope but i cant quite manage to land smooth enough. I am landing at between 250-450f/s. When i flare the G's increase to 2g and the passengers get irritated. When should i flare and how far above the runway. Any tips or visual aiming points that i should do. Thanks Razz

Hi bro, u mind telling me how u land on the exact centreline of the runaway? Are u using ILS? How to use ILS to land on auto? I get this problem when its almost 5-10secs, the aiming becomes very out. Can advise on step by step how to land on ILS and land on AUTO using MSFS 2004?

Thanks in advance bro

Welcome to the forums rohaizad77!

This Sticky might help you with some of your questions Arrow https://forum.flyawaysimulation.com/forum/topic/8080/ils-approach-guide-tutorial/

hi !! thanks!!

dat was some good article there. will read it while i try to land the 737... thanks bro.

You read that while you're trying to land the 737 and you deserve an extra medal -- if you walk away from the landing that is Very Happy

Bro, is there any good article on using the GPS bro? I mean when i take off, can the autopilot take me to the airport just like that? I know it can't make me land on auto. When I take off using IFR, there is a pink line inthe map that brings me to the airport but not on the correct approach to the runaway. What should I do ? hmmm... sorry for the newbie question

Thanks.

Sorry my man, I could explain this quite well using my own simple words but in doing so I'm bound to start a war, tread on peoples toes and maybe even cause cardiac arrest for some of the older generation.
I'd better keep my nose out of this, but don't worry, you'll soon be inundated with so much advice, you won't find time to swallow your breakfast. My apologies. Tomato

Bro, then in that case, just PM me or email me lah at rohaizad@has.hitachi.com.sg I just wanna how u do it bro....

Thanks again bro

Pro Member Chief Captain
Tailhook Chief Captain

rohaizad77 wrote:

Tailhook wrote:

rohaizad77 wrote:

Tailhook wrote:

rohaizad77 wrote:

Tailhook wrote:

rohaizad77 wrote:

Lee Warrington wrote:

I can land on the centreline of the runway on the correct glideslope but i cant quite manage to land smooth enough. I am landing at between 250-450f/s. When i flare the G's increase to 2g and the passengers get irritated. When should i flare and how far above the runway. Any tips or visual aiming points that i should do. Thanks Razz

Hi bro, u mind telling me how u land on the exact centreline of the runaway? Are u using ILS? How to use ILS to land on auto? I get this problem when its almost 5-10secs, the aiming becomes very out. Can advise on step by step how to land on ILS and land on AUTO using MSFS 2004?

Thanks in advance bro

Welcome to the forums rohaizad77!

This Sticky might help you with some of your questions Arrow https://forum.flyawaysimulation.com/forum/topic/8080/ils-approach-guide-tutorial/

hi !! thanks!!

dat was some good article there. will read it while i try to land the 737... thanks bro.

You read that while you're trying to land the 737 and you deserve an extra medal -- if you walk away from the landing that is Very Happy

Bro, is there any good article on using the GPS bro? I mean when i take off, can the autopilot take me to the airport just like that? I know it can't make me land on auto. When I take off using IFR, there is a pink line inthe map that brings me to the airport but not on the correct approach to the runaway. What should I do ? hmmm... sorry for the newbie question

Thanks.

Sorry my man, I could explain this quite well using my own simple words but in doing so I'm bound to start a war, tread on peoples toes and maybe even cause cardiac arrest for some of the older generation.
I'd better keep my nose out of this, but don't worry, you'll soon be inundated with so much advice, you won't find time to swallow your breakfast. My apologies. Tomato

Bro, then in that case, just PM me or email me lah at rohaizad@has.hitachi.com.sg I just wanna how u do it bro....

Thanks again bro

Then that's the deal, PM it shall be Very Happy

Pro Member Chief Captain
Jonathan (99jolegg) Chief Captain

Hi,

You can set up a flightplan from one destination to another, in which the route will be displayed on your GPS by a pink line.

After you have taken off, turn the GPS/NAV switch to GPS and press the NAV button on the Autopilot (along with Speed Hold and Altitude if desired). This will automatically fly you to your destination, but not line you up with the runway.

To line yourself up with a runway using the GPS...

5) Now click "PROC" at the bottom of the GPS.

6) Click "ENT" when the cursor is over "Select Approach". Choose the approach you would like by moving the cursor by clicking the left or right arrow on the outer knob. For example, ILS 29L.

7) Click "ENT" and pick the waypoint from wich you would like the approach to your selected runway to start from. If you would like it to start in a straight line from the runway about 15nm's out, select Vectors (Recommended).

8) Click "ENT". Click on the right outer arrow so cursor is on "Activate" and click "ENT".

9) Your flight plan will then appear. Click "PROC" twice and the approach will be set up.

I recommend you complete the above steps about 60nm away from the airport (according to the top right hand corner of the GPS) whilst you are descending.

Once you have complete steps 5 to 9 above, a red line will eminate from the end of the runway you have selected to about 7nm out. If you still have GPS/NAV set to GPS and still have the NAV set on the Autopilot, then your aircraft should begin to turn to the red line, which will fly directly towards the runway. When you join the beginning of the red line, you should be at around 2800 feet and should then intercept the glideslope ( https://forum.flyawaysimulation.com/forum/topic/8080/ils-approach-guide-tutorial/ ) or fly a visual approach.

I don't know whether that helps after Tailhooks advice, but I guess we will never know...

Pro Member Trainee
rohaizad77 Trainee

99jolegg wrote:

Hi,

You can set up a flightplan from one destination to another, in which the route will be displayed on your GPS by a pink line.

After you have taken off, turn the GPS/NAV switch to GPS and press the NAV button on the Autopilot (along with Speed Hold and Altitude if desired). This will automatically fly you to your destination, but not line you up with the runway.

To line yourself up with a runway using the GPS...

5) Now click "PROC" at the bottom of the GPS.

6) Click "ENT" when the cursor is over "Select Approach". Choose the approach you would like by moving the cursor by clicking the left or right arrow on the outer knob. For example, ILS 29L.

7) Click "ENT" and pick the waypoint from wich you would like the approach to your selected runway to start from. If you would like it to start in a straight line from the runway about 15nm's out, select Vectors (Recommended).

Cool Click "ENT". Click on the right outer arrow so cursor is on "Activate" and click "ENT".

9) Your flight plan will then appear. Click "PROC" twice and the approach will be set up.

I recommend you complete the above steps about 60nm away from the airport (according to the top right hand corner of the GPS) whilst you are descending.

Once you have complete steps 5 to 9 above, a red line will eminate from the end of the runway you have selected to about 7nm out. If you still have GPS/NAV set to GPS and still have the NAV set on the Autopilot, then your aircraft should begin to turn to the red line, which will fly directly towards the runway. When you join the beginning of the red line, you should be at around 2800 feet and should then intercept the glideslope ( https://forum.flyawaysimulation.com/forum/topic/8080/ils-approach-guide-tutorial/ ) or fly a visual approach.

I don't know whether that helps after Tailhooks advice, but I guess we will never know...

Hi !

Thanks! It works! But I have a few questions

1) I have to adjust the speed and altitude myself or the AP will do it for me? I think i have to adjust this myself rite?

2) If I am lining up on the runway after setting up as per your advise above, then I select the APPR button to begin the final approach, will everything go hayewire?

3) When doing APPR, what is the best distance from the runway to start it ?

4) Is there a way to land the plane totally on AP ? I have been practicing landing manually tracking the ILS more than 1000 times, well, it gets better but sometimes its too sensitive yet no perfect result.

Hey captain, thanks for your help!! This is a fantastic site! Lovin it!

Thanks again!

Pro Member Chief Captain
Jonathan (99jolegg) Chief Captain

Hi,

1) Yes you do have to adjust speed and flaps yourself, whether you are completing autoland or just using the GPS vectors to final for approach. As for altitude, if you have your GPS/NAV switch to GPS and are following the red line from the runway, then yes, this is only lateral navigation and you need to descend accordingly. Otherwise, when you get to the red line, you can execute an ILS landing which is explained in the post in my previous post - its up to you which one you do.

2) Things to remember:
a) Make sure you have your GPS/NAV switch set to NAV if you are engaging the APP button.
b) Make sure you have the correct runway heading in your CRS selector on the MCP.
c) Make sure your speed is around 180 KIAS and not too much higher.
d) Make sure you are roughly 10nm-15nm from the runway threshold before you activate APP.
e) Make sure you intercept the glideslope from below, say around 2800 feet.

3) Answered above

4) You can land the plane totally by buying an addon, like the PMDG 747/737 etc. These realistic models have autoland built into them, but default FS9 doesn't have this feature. Keep practicing and you'll surely get better!

Hope that helps Wink

Pro Member Trainee
rohaizad77 Trainee

99jolegg wrote:

Hi,

1) Yes you do have to adjust speed and flaps yourself, whether you are completing autoland or just using the GPS vectors to final for approach. As for altitude, if you have your GPS/NAV switch to GPS and are following the red line from the runway, then yes, this is only lateral navigation and you need to descend accordingly. Otherwise, when you get to the red line, you can execute an ILS landing which is explained in the post in my previous post - its up to you which one you do.

2) Things to remember:
a) Make sure you have your GPS/NAV switch set to NAV if you are engaging the APP button.
b) Make sure you have the correct runway heading in your CRS selector on the MCP.
c) Make sure your speed is around 180 KIAS and not too much higher.
d) Make sure you are roughly 10nm-15nm from the runway threshold before you activate APP.
e) Make sure you intercept the glideslope from below, say around 2800 feet.

3) Answered above

4) You can land the plane totally by buying an addon, like the PMDG 747/737 etc. These realistic models have autoland built into them, but default FS9 doesn't have this feature. Keep practicing and you'll surely get better!

Hope that helps Wink

Thanks!!! I will give it a try later. I like your "Things to remember list:" Guess I didnt do 2b and 2d. But I dont quite understand 2e, what u mean by intercepting the glideslipe from below?? In the ILS, I am aware of the pink cross and the 2 diamond at the right side and bottom. If the diamond at the right side is high up, it means I have to pitch up to get close to it, meaning Im too low.

Thanks! By the way, where are u from ?

Pro Member Chief Captain
Jonathan (99jolegg) Chief Captain

I've shown what is meant by intercepting from below here:

The red line is the aircrafts track toward the ILS glideslope. As you can see, the beam of the ILS extends to around 15-20nm. When the aircraft flies along the red line to the red 'X' they are engaged in the glideslope beam and the vertical indicator will show that the aircraft is centered. From this point, the aircraft needs to start descending; below 2800 feet to stay in the center of the 2 lines, which get closer and closer together until the threshold of runway 1.

If you were to try and intercept the glideslope from above then you could be too high and miss the glideslope completely and have to dive to lose altitude to get centered on the ILS. If you intercept from below, (as opposed to roughly where the black arrow is) then you are guaranteed to 'hit' the ILS beam so it centers itself for you once you get to point 'X'. I hope you understand this vague explanation.

Hope that helps, and it says under my avatar where I am from.

Pro Member Trainee
rohaizad77 Trainee

99jolegg wrote:

I've shown what is meant by intercepting from below here:

The red line is the aircrafts track toward the ILS glideslope. As you can see, the beam of the ILS extends to around 15-20nm. When the aircraft flies along the red line to the red 'X' they are engaged in the glideslope beam and the vertical indicator will show that the aircraft is centered. From this point, the aircraft needs to start descending; below 2800 feet to stay in the center of the 2 lines, which get closer and closer together until the threshold of runway 1.

If you were to try and intercept the glideslope from above then you could be too high and miss the glideslope completely and have to dive to lose altitude to get centered on the ILS. If you intercept from below, (as opposed to roughly where the black arrow is) then you are guaranteed to 'hit' the ILS beam so it centers itself for you once you get to point 'X'. I hope you understand this vague explanation.

Hope that helps, and it says under my avatar where I am from.

Bro, that helps alot, I managed to land on the centreline. I disabled the autopilot at about 500ft to handle the A340-500 manually and flare at about 50ft and seems quite ok. Am I doing the right thing? But it feels good though Razz

What would be an estimation of the speed and altitude to be in when in the approach? I know u mentioned at the Red line, i should be about 2800 ft. So at what rate should I descend after touching the redline? i normally estimate base on the PAPI lights and adjust the speed accordingly and flaps.

Thanks bro

Pro Member Chief Captain
Jonathan (99jolegg) Chief Captain

Your landing technique sounds fine. As long as you have a soft and virtually centerline landing, it can't be bad!

The speed for an A340-500 would be around 170 I suppose. I don't fly Airbuses, but at a guess I'd say between 170 and 180KIAS at the red 'X'.

For descent rate, you should be looking at the HSI or the PFD for the axes of the glideslope. You must try to keep the pink arrow on the vertical line, at the very centre of the range it can go. So basically, you descend at the rate it tells you to, which will probably be at around -750fpm.

The PAPI lights represent one axis of the glideslope, the vertical axis, so generally speaking, if you keep 2 whites and 2 reds on the descent, then you should be centering the vertical ILS needle aswell.

In conditions that are poor, you won't be able to rely on the PAPI lights, because you won't necessarily be able to see them.

Try this checklist for the A340:

Arrow http://www.dauntless-soft.com/PRODUCTS/Freebies/HandlingNotes/simchecklists.asp

Its free to download, but is made for FS2002, but it shouldn't be too different.

Hope that helps Wink

Nero89 Guest

I have the opposite problem to Lee; i can easily get a smooth landing but i have never hit the centreline perfectly without the aid of approach hold. can anyone tell me how to more easily hit the centreline every time?

Pro Member Trainee
rohaizad77 Trainee

Nero89 wrote:

I have the opposite problem to Lee; i can easily get a smooth landing but i have never hit the centreline perfectly without the aid of approach hold. can anyone tell me how to more easily hit the centreline every time?

I never get the centreline exactly without using the APP hold. Its so difficult to judge and estimate. I guess the easy way is to use APP. Otherwise, its practice and practice i suppose... Rolling Eyes

Pro Member Chief Captain
Jonathan (99jolegg) Chief Captain

Make sure:
1) You make small movements on the control surfaces, especially the ailerons.
2) That you keep your speed constant, say at around 160 KIAS
3) Make sure you know what the winds are before you start the approach. If you have a crosswind, be aware, and make sure you compensate for it by crabbing.
4) Try and predict the movement of the aircraft relative to the centerline. If the horizontal indicator very slowly starts moving to the left for example, then its safe to say that it will go more and more to the left if your course is left unchanged. If it starts moving slowly, then make a tiny adjustment to center it again.
5) Make sure you centre yourself before you get too low. At low altitudes, banking is not appropriate, especially when near the threshold.

As rohaizad77 said, practice and more practice will help a lot Wink

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