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Helicopters and Collective

Pro Member First Officer
Tom (cthiggin) First Officer

Hello Fellow Simmers,
Santa brought me a Logitech 3DForce Pro...........so, I've been learning the ol' helio flying...............boy, what a challenge...............

Question.................I understand the principle with anti-torque rudder, throttle, cyclic, and collective.........BUT, with a "joystick", you can control the rudder, cyclic, throttle, BUT, how in the world do you deal with the collective/?? - I'm having a terrible time with maintaining level flight/speed without collective...................................

AM I Missing something here................please help this ol' guy if you can.

Thanks in advance,

cthiggin

Pro Member Chief Captain
RadarMan Chief Captain

See if this or the links in it help.

Bu the way, MS made flying them easier than in FS9, now even I can fly them...well sort of. Rolling Eyes

http://www.fsstation.com/tutorials/helicopter-flying-tutorial.html

Radar

Pro Member First Officer
Tom (cthiggin) First Officer

WOW - This will be a monumental help......................
AS ALWAYS, you come as a blessing Radarman..............
Thanks so much,
cthiggin

Pro Member First Officer
Lee198 First Officer

Cthiggin,

Give me a shout if I can be any help. I gravitated towards helos on FS9 3 years ago and seem to be doing ok so far... Wink

Shout if you need to know anything and, if I can help, I will.

Happy flying! Once you master helicopters, you get a funny feeling that you can do anything...! Enjoy.

Lee

Pro Member First Officer
Tom (cthiggin) First Officer

Thanks Lee198,
I had a RC Chopper years ago and boy, it was also a challenge............I read the threads that Radarman gave me and they helped...............flew some last night.......................
I know that it "will" come with time flying, but I am still having the problem of "not" having a collective for rotor pitch, and in "my mind", its hard to maintain level flight with just the throttle.................more throttle, you go up, less throttle, you go down..................where with the collective, you have a relationship to throttle/collective pitch.........

Also, the instruments are so small and hard to read in VC that I'm having trouble with torque.............................

Any additional help would again be highly appreciated.

Thanks so very much and I'm sure I'll be in touch.

cthiggin

Pro Member First Officer
Lee198 First Officer

I know what you mean.

For the same reason I spoiled myself & got separate sick, throttle & pedals. Really makes a difference to the whole feel of the thing.

Pro Member First Officer
Tom (cthiggin) First Officer

Glad you "know what I mean" - tells me IT'S not just a "me" thing.

I have the CH Pedals, BUT, I have been using the "twist" feature on my joystick for the tail rotor............

How did you set up another controller for the collective????? and in FSX Controls, I haven't seen anything making reference to the collective..........maybe I'm overlooking it...............

Keep me abreast of what/how your're doing it.........and THANKS for your interest and patience in helping me.

cthiggin

Pro Member First Officer
Lee198 First Officer

I got the X52 Pro system which has the separate throttle controller. This is used as the collective control.

Not being the world's greatest computer genius, I was happy that it simply plugs in to the USB port & then FSX did the rest, with the calibration & profiles showing up in the Controls page of the set up screens.

Pro Member First Officer
Tom (cthiggin) First Officer

Hello Lee198 -
I'm using the "Santa Gift", Logitech 3DForce Pro with feedback -
Let me know how you like the Saitek..................

I was "practicing" hovering last night, and when I finished and powered the chopper down, rotors stopped...........................I zoomed in, and watched the collective and anti-torque pedals move as I moved the joystick....................well, I increased the throttle up and down and FSX increases the collective as you increase throttle...................so, this tells me why (IMO) it's so difficult to maintain level flight while increasing speed....................IF your Saitek overcomes that, that will be my next purchase..................................

Thanks so very much for you help and interest. I appreciate it very much.
cthiggin

Pro Member First Officer
Lee198 First Officer

Ah! Very Happy

I think I see the issue (or part of it)...
You mention the collective increase as you advance the throttle. That's exactly what should be happening. Try not to think of the throttle as a throttle in a helo. The throttle control is indeed used as a substitute for the collective lever in the real thing, so by adjusting it you won't be altering the engine power as in a fixed wing aircraft. It's purely for collective pitch control and will only affect the amount of lift being put out by the rotor disc. Hope that helps (and that I'm not teaching you to suck eggs!!)

As for the Saitek- it's fantastic! I've never had so much fun. Worth every penny. Whatever you're flying, it totally alters the whole experience and for helicopters in particular, I find that it gives you much more precision in your control inputs. I'd thoroughly recommend it.

You're more than welcome, by the way cthiggin. I'm sure you'd happily help me if I needed it.

Happy flying, and if there's anything else, do shout!

Lee

Pro Member First Officer
Tom (cthiggin) First Officer

Hello again Lee198,
SO, if I am to understand correctly - in a helio, the throttle controls the pitch?????????of the main rotor................BUT, does the throttle ALSO give some speed increase as in fixed wing??????????
In my mind, I cannot see where you would have your "speed" at 100% and only adjust collective with the speed control?????????? - maybe I'm missing something here - I know in real choppers, you can twist the collective grip to increase throttle speed, then as you lift up on the collective, it increases pitch........................maybe I'm getting confused with the real deal vs. simulation........................

Put this one to rest for me my friend.......................I can hover and land pretty well now, but again, flying at a fixed altitude is now the "real" challenge...............

Thanks so much my friend,
cthiggin

Pro Member First Officer
Lee198 First Officer

Hi again, cthiggin!

Yes, you've pretty much got it. Very Happy What's normally the throttle for a fixed wing on your stick does the job of the collective lever in the helicopter. It has very little to do with the engine power output and almost nothing to do with forward thrust.
In most helos on the sim, the engine power is controlled by the computer, so all you have to think about is the amount of lift you are requiring from the rotors and there are no worries about the throttle.

You're quite right- in real helos, the pilot has control over the engine power output too. A lot of helos have a twist grip on the collective lever, but multi-engine helicopters tend to heve the throttles mounted on the overhead panel.

As you have probably gathered by now, if you're able to hover and land (and well done on that), a helicopter's forward speed is determined by the movement of the cyclic- the joystick. I know it takes some getting used to! Think of it as a role reversal from fixed wing- the stick determines forward movement, whilst the collective determines lift. (There's more to it than that, but we can always go into that later.)

With helos it's a case of seat of the pants flying- learning to balance all the control inputs. Once you get there, it's really worth it, because you'll have control of one of the most difficult flying machines ever put on this earth, and that's really something!!

As always, hope I've helped!

Please let me know how you get on. Best of luck. Talk soon.

Lee

Pro Member First Officer
Tom (cthiggin) First Officer

Thanks so much Lee198 -
NOW - I "got it" -
Real Life vs. FSX - boy, what a relief...................

And as you have stated..................these "rascals" are the epitomy of a challenge......................but that's what drives me.......................

Thanks again for all of your help and explaination....................and YES, I would be more than happy to help YOU in any way I could.

My belief is "one of the greatest gifts you can give is knowledge.............

Thanks Lee,
cthiggin

Pro Member First Officer
Lee198 First Officer

More than welcome, mate. Take care. Wink

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