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Performing the FLARE

Pro Member Captain
David (The-GPS-Kid) Captain

Hi All,

Was just wondering if most of you perform your landing FLARE purely by gently pulling back on the Control Column ?

I've always done this but I saw in one of my real life Aviation DVDs that the pilot was using the TRIM button on his Yoke to affect most of the Flare..... then just applying a really small bit of back pressure, just to finish the Flare off....

I tried this in the Sim in the Legendary 727 (a plane that I fly a lot but still find challenging to land).. It REALLY helped for a smooth touchdown.

Of course it's only really practical if you have TRIM buttons assigned to your Yoke / Joystick.

Thought it may be interesting to see some posts on people's techniques for this highly skillful part of the landing sequence.

Wink

Pro Member Captain
Zach (ranald) Captain

Thanks for the tip.I usauly just pull back and a bit to much which usauly causes the aircraft to float Mad

Pro Member Captain
Jon Van Duyn (JVD) Captain

I find it strange that I am never to concerned with my trim but all the pilots I know always ask where the trim is on my flight sim. They are so concerned about, i think it's almost a bit ridicuolus because I manage if I don't trim the plane every time I turn,takeoff,land gain or lose altitude. Do you guys think it's a bit ridicuolus or am I just different Question

Pro Member Chief Captain
Alex (Fire_Emblem_Master) Chief Captain

I use the trim, but not to flare. Actually, most of my landings are comprised of a weird floating thing that i do. Nearly 90% of the time, I don't need the reverse-thrust. Basically, after watcing replay after replay, I flare about 4 degrees, and sort of "float" down the runway, 5-9 feet (it looks like that, can't really tell with the sim) untill about a quarter of the way down. Speed bleeds off real nice like that, and you make kickass 3-pointers that way, but it's not what you're really supposed to do, so don't do it! Wink

Pro Member Chief Captain
Manuel Agustin Clausse (Agus0404) Chief Captain

I don't use the trim to flare, but I'll give it a try.
I use the trim on takeoff. But also when I engage autopilot, the trim is automatically used.

Pro Member Captain
Sam (SamIntel) Captain

About half the time I use the trim, and about half the time I don't. It just depends on how high and fast I'm coming in. But I never knew what the real procedures were, thanks.

Pro Member First Officer
Greg (FL050) First Officer

Fire_Emblem_Master wrote:

I use the trim, but not to flare. Actually, most of my landings are comprised of a weird floating thing that i do. Nearly 90% of the time, I don't need the reverse-thrust. Basically, after watcing replay after replay, I flare about 4 degrees, and sort of "float" down the runway, 5-9 feet (it looks like that, can't really tell with the sim) untill about a quarter of the way down. Speed bleeds off real nice like that, and you make kickass 3-pointers that way, but it's not what you're really supposed to do, so don't do it! Wink

You land 3-point in a Boeing? Confused

Razz

Pro Member Captain
Jon Van Duyn (JVD) Captain

In an airbus you never go above 3 degrees during flare and when you are decending you never go below 3 degrees.

Pro Member First Officer
michlin First Officer

Frequently I will use some trim along with the stick.

Guest FEM Guest

Yeah, it isn't all that hard to get a 3 point landing with a boeing. I'll do it in the 767-400 Wednesday when i have time, i gotta work today and tomorrow. Then i'll post a screenie

Guest

In real life aviation, the trim function is used to help counter act the weight/aerodynamics associated with flying an airplane. In the flare, if the aircraft is not properly trimmed, it can get down right physical to keep the nose in the proper attitude, especially in heavier aircraft, it can take a lot of muscle. The navajo/cheiftain is a perfect example...it is heavy on the controls, so by using trim in the flare, it reduces the strain on your arm muscles to keep the nose off the ground.

The proper landing technique is different for each aircraft you fly. Flying small piston powered aircraft you cut the power over the numbers and start the fare 2 or 3 feet above the ground. Flying a jet, depending on the configuration, i.e. MD-80/B727, most pilots keep a small amount of power on until touch down, so only a very small amount of pitch is reaquired to flare 2-3 degrees this is to prevent a tail strike. The only standard in landing an airplane is speed control. In a jet, maintain VREF +10 on the approach, slowing to VREF over the numbers...and you shouldn't have a problem.

Pro Member Captain
David (The-GPS-Kid) Captain

Good comments guest.... you sound like a real life pilot... if you're not, you can take that as a BIG compliment! Wink

JVD - No disrespect but you really need to learn about Elevator Trim as it is absolutely essential to flying...... The reason I'm saying that (and the reason your friends will be making such a big deal) is that you don't learn to fly properly and smoothly until you learn how to trim the aircraft smoothly.

I tried to forget about trim when I first started flight simming - to my detriment ! I didn't realise how "Wobbly" and shaky my climbs and descents were, until I learned how to trim properly.

Think about it - in a climb, if you have not trimmed properly, you are relying on climbing smoothly by holding the yoke only and it's human nature that this will lead to an inconsistant rate of climb.

If you take off with the plane (any plane) already trimmed for an appropriate climb rate, then the plane will "fly itself" (i dont mean through an autopilot, I mean that the plane will climb smoothly).

Watch any aviation DVD and you'll see the pilots re-trimming constantly.... (using trim controls on the yoke)..... Airliner pilots adjust the aircrats attitude more using Trim than they do by pulling or pushing on the yoke.

Anyway, end of lecture, I'm only saying this because I "ignored" proper trimming for months and when I researched and learned it properly my hand flying skills were transformed and the flying was just hugely more enjoyable ! Wink

Pro Member First Officer
twistedsucker First Officer

I dont perform the flare, I just get to the runway and pull back when I am close enough Wink

Pro Member First Officer
Steve (megafoot) First Officer

I think you are on to something here... I have a real problem with floating way past the spot i intend to touch down at. i have even been half way down the runway before the first screech. i think that i will start to use the trim method you describe. mite as well use the tools that the airplane has available. as far as it being the correct procedure??? who knows or cares as long as it looks cool Cool

In fact, I'm gonna call it "hitting the kid on the runway" in homage to you GPS-Kid Smile

Pro Member Captain
Jon Van Duyn (JVD) Captain

JVD - No disrespect but you really need to learn about Elevator Trim as it is absolutely essential to flying...... The reason I'm saying that (and the reason your friends will be making such a big deal) is that you don't learn to fly properly and smoothly until you learn how to trim the aircraft smoothly.

\

Thanks for the input, I'll spend more time on my trimming. Embarassed

Pro Member Chief Captain
Alex (Fire_Emblem_Master) Chief Captain

I dont perform the flare, I just get to the runway and pull back when I am close enough

Unless that's a joke, what you just described IS THE FLARE!

Pro Member First Officer
Bartholomew First Officer

If you trim "a lot" before takeoff the airplane flies off the runway on it's own.

Pro Member Captain
Jon Van Duyn (JVD) Captain

Do you think if you had to add a bit more flaps [something above flaps 15] your aircraft would takeoff by itself Question

Pro Member Chief Captain
Jonathan (99jolegg) Chief Captain

Depends on the aircraft and the weight. If it was fairly light i.e. not much fuel or passengers and there was a lot of flaps i.e. 30 degrees and there was a lot of speed then yes it would take off allllll by itself, cleverrr Very Happy

Pro Member First Officer
Greg (FL050) First Officer

99jolegg wrote:

Depends on the aircraft and the weight. If it was fairly light i.e. not much fuel or passengers and there was a lot of flaps i.e. 30 degrees and there was a lot of speed then yes it would take off allllll by itself, cleverrr Very Happy

More than likely it wouldn't with 30 degrees in flaps. You would probably have to be going V2 + 75kts before it would even thinking about it with 30 Razz

Pro Member First Officer
Martin (Blake14) First Officer

How can you trim a plane before it takes off to actually climb at a designated climb rate? Is there supposed to be measures on the trim or what?

Pro Member Chief Captain
tomthetank Chief Captain

Move the trim wheel down,there is a little pointer, to the next mark down on take off and the nose will come up much easier(with practice you will be able to just open the throttles and sit back untill you takeoff)

do it too much and your nose will be in the air almost as soon as you start your takeoff run

Pro Member Chief Captain
Alex (Fire_Emblem_Master) Chief Captain

Ok, to answer the questions.

30 degrees flaps creates huge amounts of drag, if you look at the shape of the wing, it curves down and forward so much, that it's like hanging a piece of wood off the ass-end of the wing.

If you look on most trim wheels, you'll see a little marking labeled T/O. That means Take Off. Set it to there, and you'll be fine.

Pro Member First Officer
Martin (Blake14) First Officer

Cool, i'll be trying that tonight !

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