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747 landing

Iflystuff Guest

why is it so impossible for me to land a b747? i can land any other boeing, a 737 a 757 a triple 7, but whenever i am coming in for the approach with a 747, i make the descent fine, but when i near the runway, the plane starts to ascend all by itself. i dont know whats going on, but that keeps on happening making it impossible for me to make a landing. any ideas?

24 Responses

Pro Member Chief Captain
Jonathan (99jolegg) Chief Captain

By ascending by itself, it is hard to know what you mean.

It sounds as though, you are keeping a high speed of around 180 KIAS on approach, and adding more and more flaps. Flaps increase the lift of the wing and cause the aircraft to have a positive VS even with a pitch attitude of 0 degrees - basically, look in the Kneeboard --> References Page for the flap placard and only extend the flaps according to the maximum speeds. Not only will you stuff up your approach if you get the lift / velocity relationship wrong, but you will damage flaps (if you were flying in the real world).

😉

Jamie4590 Guest

I applaud anyone who can pull off a text book 747 or any 'very heavy' aircraft flight. I find all aspects of the flight enjoyable but I can never judge the descent and approach phase no matter how many figures I scribble down from readings. I've made a small percentage of successful Concorde flights but the closest with a 747 is missing the airport all together. I flew over it at 5000ft!

I know when to time the flaps but am never really prepared for the effects it has on the pitching motion or additional engine power, as said above. Why does Concorde have no flaps? Is it because delta wing aircraft generally dont?

Pro Member Captain
Kareem El-Sadi (crosscheck9) Captain

Jamie4590 wrote:

I applaud anyone who can pull off a text book 747 or any 'very heavy' aircraft flight. I find all aspects of the flight enjoyable but I can never judge the descent and approach phase no matter how many figures I scribble down from readings. I've made a small percentage of successful Concorde flights but the closest with a 747 is missing the airport all together. I flew over it at 5000ft!

I know when to time the flaps but am never really prepared for the effects it has on the pitching motion or additional engine power, as said above. Why does Concorde have no flaps? Is it because delta wing aircraft generally dont?

Landing a 747 in fs9 is not very hard, contrary to your belief. Its just a matter of getting a feel for the aircraft. It would help if you told us which 747 your using, ie. POSKY, etc. in order for us to check it out and tell you through comparison, whether it is accurate or modeled incorrectly. In flight, its all about the timing.

You said you missed the airport all together. That is not a problem with relation to the 747, but your general navigation techniques. Take a look at the sticky approach guide put together by 99jolegg ➡

https://forum.flyawaysimulation.com/forum/topic/8080/ils-approach-guide-tutorial/

It is a combination of different approach techniques written by several of our other experienced members, and is a good place to look to for reference.

As I said before, its all about timing. If your extending flaps 500ft from the threshold, there's bound to be some difficulty.

As Jon previously stated, when you add flaps, it will create a positive VS rate, thus making it difficult to realign yourself with the glideslope. I suggest you read the documentation on the 747 located in the Flight Lessons, and possibly take it down a notch. Get familiar with other aircraft, then take the queen out for a spin. It's not an overly difficult aircraft to fly in the sim, so just keep at it, and you'll find results in no time 😉

Jamie4590 Guest

Crosscheck9, its the 747-400 that comes with the FS2002 package. I dont go near it now because since adding on Altitude software's Concorde I want to have more control that you dont get with the installed aircrafts plus it will take me a life time to master the Concorde!

I'm thinking because of the difficulty in Concorde and I suspect the lack of support the aircraft gets in virtual airline communities I'm going to get an add-on 747 sim so any suggestions would be welcomed. 👍

Too true that the flaps should be down and have a clean configuration long before the landing zone. Maybe last flap at 3 km from landing zone maintaining 170 KTAS? If I spent many hours devoted to the 747-400 I could nail the approach. I've done zero-zero landings from 20 miles out intercepting and following the the glideslope perfectly but I always switch wind OFF and thats cheating because there is ALWAYS wind.

MrSam Guest

I find that, if you look in the aircraft.cfg file, you can find what the "stall speeds" are with flaps fully extended. That way, you know how slow you can go. A nice and slow approach will allow you to flare correctly.

It sounds like, when you tried to flare the plane, you started climbing. I do that a lot, it happens when I'm coming in too fast.

If you're coming in too fast, it's hard to follow the glidescope, tiny adjustments in the flight path result in needing more drastic corrections.

Pro Member Captain
Kareem El-Sadi (crosscheck9) Captain

Jamie4590 wrote:

Crosscheck9, its the 747-400 that comes with the FS2002 package. I dont go near it now because since adding on Altitude software's Concorde I want to have more control that you dont get with the installed aircrafts plus it will take me a life time to master the Concorde!

I'm thinking because of the difficulty in Concorde and I suspect the lack of support the aircraft gets in virtual airline communities I'm going to get an add-on 747 sim so any suggestions would be welcomed. 👍

Too true that the flaps should be down and have a clean configuration long before the landing zone. Maybe last flap at 3 km from landing zone maintaining 170 KTAS? If I spent many hours devoted to the 747-400 I could nail the approach. I've done zero-zero landings from 20 miles out intercepting and following the the glideslope perfectly but I always switch wind OFF and thats cheating because there is ALWAYS wind.

Jamie, your figure of 170kts cannot be confirmed, because you'd need to factor in winds, weight, and other environmental/mechanical conditions, but for the most part, aim for that. When you start to feel the controls are a little heavy upon landing, then your nearing the stall speed. Like MrSam said, you may be coming in fast and flaring too much. In jumbo's like the 747, don't flair too much so as to avoid a tailstrike. I think 3-4 degrees should be enough. Keep trying and let us know how yhou get along 😉

Jamie4590 Guest

I do want to master a 747 but I really like the Concorde. So much so that I still go wide eyed when the cockpit loads. All that stuff to play with!!! I'm sure thats not uncommon. 😂 Its a fabulous creation but very demanding to fly. The instruments and technology although sound and authentic is outdated and I miss the FMC!

I cant stop flying it though. If I load another aircraft I don't have the same enthusiasm and begin wishing I was in Concorde until I eventually abort the flight. Then I'll start preparing for a transatlantic flight in Concorde but soon lose interest because I miss today's technology. As a result for a while I've been making very little progress in either aircraft. Are there Virtual Airlines that use concorde? If there is its a good incentive to keep at it.

Pro Member Captain
Kareem El-Sadi (crosscheck9) Captain

Jamie, I'm not aware of any VA's that operate Concorde's because most VA's try to simulate real world fleets, hubs, and other general ops. There may be some fictional VA's of which I'm not familiar. You seem to be uncertain as whether to fly the concorde or 747. Both are beautiful aircraft, and I can't tell you to fly either one, after all, to each his own. However, try to make a commitment when you load a flight. Imagine you have passengers behind you. Its your responsibility to complete it, and believing your obliged to perform your very best in every flight is when you fulfill the statement, "As real as it gets". Try to make it a firm goal in your head that from the moment you leave the gate, to the moment you shut your engines down, you must be fully dedicated to every flight, or else you will never really enjoy FS. Occasionaly, you will fall into a slump and want to keep trying to find something new, when it really doesn't exist. I've had it before, and so have many others, but its just a phase.

Judging by the way you've spoken in your previous post, you seem to be very compelled to fly the concorde. Then DO SO!! 😀 Its a dream to fly, and FS pilots are some of the very few people who will ever get even close to knowing what its like to command a concorde half way 'round the world, in a few hours. Don't let the fact that it doesn't have an FMC irritate you. Thats what makes it beautiful. Its a classic, graceful bird, full of potential thats now held back. Release that potential, and things will quickly kick into gear.

Good luck 😉 may the tailwind greet you with a smile

Jamie4590 Guest

Cheers Dude. 👍

The biggest single problem I have is my approach and landing are very poor because I've no saved flights to load up and practice with. I'm going to resolve that by creating the save flights to train with. I can time the deacceleration and initial descent well though. I'll also spend some time flying the Concorde at very low speeds and practice the landings then I'll feel more prepared for a full flight. The INS is time-consuming pre-flight but then does a great job keeping the plane on track and is helping my navigation skills too.

I also think I have a lot more ground school to do so I'm going to get myself motivated and start reading up again as I've not picked up a textbook for a few months! I also started playing a non-sim but I'm selling that today so there will be no more distractions. You've helped me conclude that I'm dilly dallying instead of focusing on objectives. I'll stick with Concorde until I know everything there is to know and can pull off a CATIII autoland everytime! Have you made many flights in Concorde?

Although VA might not have Concordes is the aircraft still fully supported for other add-on software such as AI ATC?

Pro Member Captain
Kareem El-Sadi (crosscheck9) Captain

Glad to hear your putting your foot down 😉

Like you said, just save the flights towards the end of your cruise, and practice descent and landing. Pretty soon, you'll get the hang of it.

Have you made many flights in Concorde?

I did fly the concorde for a short while about 1 year ago, and I loved it. I remember having a very extensive manual, which I sat there and analyzed bit by bit, and still struggled to land properly. Eventually, I got the hang of it, but I don't recall attempting any CATIII autolands. If you go that far, more power to you 😉

As far as your last question, I'm not sure if Concordes are fully supported for other add-on software. Maybe someone else might have the answer for you. 😉

Pro Member First Officer
CaptDennison First Officer

Man, if you can land the Concorde, you can land a 747!

If you fly the concorde a lot, then try the 747, you will need to adjust to the fact that the concorde is areodynamic, fast, and far more nimble than the 747.
In the concorde you must begin decnets a lot farther out, and use long approaches. flare in the concorde is also a lot higher alpha than the 747, and faster.

When landing the 747, set up first for a long approach, think FLYING BRICK. Remember the 747 takes longer to react to control inputs, and you will need more input than in a concorde.

Managment is key to any aircraft. WAtch your airspped and rate of decent. Add or pull power as needed to maintian consistant speed and rate of decent.

You will need to learn ground judgement and when to flare, when to cut power (OR ADD POWER)

Land full flaps, pop the borads out when you touchdown, reverse engine ASAP, Brakes, pull the nose up to use aerobraking.

Its all a matter of timing, and management of the aircraft.

Also remember the 747 is a much heavier A/C, so do not let the sink rate get out of control, or your gonna bend the gear.

I also suggest you search for a FREEWare 747 to download--you will get far better flight characteristics!

good Luck--just never give up

Capt. Dennison

Pro Member Trainee
mikecurrie Trainee

i know this is a 747 thread, but im gonna steal it for my 737 😛

Im trying to get it spot on, but still keep messing it up 😞 how far away and at what speeds do you extent the flaps and gears. what speed should u aproach when at 2,000ft and when ur just over the runway about to touchdown (im trying for around 150-140 atm depending on weight, but i keep getting hard landings)? I use auto approach, so my glidoscope is fine, its the the flare at the end i cant seem to get right, can do it fine on smaller aircraft.

Cheers

Pro Member Chief Captain
Jonathan (99jolegg) Chief Captain

mikecurrie wrote:

i know this is a 747 thread, but im gonna steal it for my 737 😛

Im trying to get it spot on, but still keep messing it up 😞 how far away and at what speeds do you extent the flaps and gears. what speed should u aproach when at 2,000ft and when ur just over the runway about to touchdown (im trying for around 150-140 atm depending on weight, but i keep getting hard landings)? I use auto approach, so my glidoscope is fine, its the the flare at the end i cant seem to get right, can do it fine on smaller aircraft.

Cheers

You should look at the reference section of the kneeboard for the 737 or the Learning Center. It has all of the information for maximum flap extension speeds, gear extension speeds and landing speeds.

For the flare...

1) Make sure your landing speed (known as Vref) is constant and correct. You can use Auto Throttle to help maintain speed.

2) Make sure you flare when you are landing. This temporary increase in lift is what cuts your negative descent rate by half for a smooth landing. You should flare at around 3-7 degrees, depending on a lot of factors. I suggest you try a few landings with a "Spot Plane" view as well as your cockpit view. Press '[' i.e. the button next to P on the keyboard and it'll open a new window, then just press S to cycle through the views. You should look to flare when you cut power.

3) Cut power when you are about 10-30ft above the runway - especailly for heavy jets. If you have no thrust to propell you through the air, then the wings can't do what their designed to do and provide lift - no lift, means a hard landing. Getting some descent altitude callouts will be useful here.

A good landing is about getting the right speed on approach, combined with the flare and cutting of the power. The idea is that you cut power at the right time and flare, to have idle thrust (cutting of the power) whilst retaining some lift (the increased angle of attack of the wing due to the flare). The relationship between the two is paramount for a smooth landing.

Let us know how you get on 😉

Guest

What do you guys make of my 747 (default aircraft FS2004) landing?
I DID land this and was able to taxi off at 1st exit! 😛

Pro Member Chief Captain
Jonathan (99jolegg) Chief Captain

A big fault in the sim then...

Well done anyway 😉

Guest

Or a very skilled pilot .... 😂 🙄 😉

Pro Member Trainee
mikecurrie Trainee

thanks for ur help, i am improving, managed this quite nice landing i think:

and whilst i was bored this one too 😛

Guest

I thought we were talking 747 landing not 737 or can't you distinguish or read what aircraft you are flying?!

Feltcher Guest

Anonymous wrote:

What do you guys make of my 747 (default aircraft FS2004) landing?
I DID land this and was able to taxi off at 1st exit! 😛

TOO FAST--Too HIGH

Pro Member Trainee
mikecurrie Trainee

Anonymous wrote:

I thought we were talking 747 landing not 737 or can't you distinguish or read what aircraft you are flying?!

If u bothered to read all the thread, Mr guest, u would know.

Guest

If you can't handle the 737 on FS2004 then maybe the whole game is too complex for you? Mad

Guest

Feltcher wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

What do you guys make of my 747 (default aircraft FS2004) landing?
I DID land this and was able to taxi off at 1st exit! 😛

TOO FAST--Too HIGH

LMAO-sorry..

Wow looks like an emergency landing with thrust locked on full power 😳 😳

Why on earth are you going 260kt!!! 😳 😳 😳 You should be flying at more like around 140kt or whatever your Vref is. 🙂

This is how you are meant to land a plane:

🙂

Guest

Thats probably a 737 though mate!

Guest

it is, but their all the same, except the 747 is just a bigger plane!

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